The Daily Mail article cited above shows a covered truck and gives a very vague story.
Even more importantly, it doesn't supply a motive.
What gain could Russia have in shooting down an airline?
There is no obvious motive (that I can see) and plenty of reasons not to. I've written an article here "Motive lacking in Russia blame for airline attack"in response to the Daily Mail allegations. I welcome ongoing discussion of the points I make at the base of that article, or here.
Seeing as the Malaysian Air 777 was transiting from west to east, high over the border between the two rivals, may have classified the aircraft as a Ukrainian military aircraft? A friendly fire incident was quite possible if airliners continued to use routes over the troubled region.
If rebel forces were either given these surface to air missile systems from Russia, or one similar such as the more modern SA-11/17 "Buk" — it is fairly clear Russia has backed these forces — or at least initially, with material and training, then it would also implicate Russia in this tragic event.
it is quite possible that Russia's air defense apparatus along the border with Ukraine was on high-alert as it may have already shot down two Ukrainian aircraft. Ukrainian officials believe Russian separatists fired a ground-to-air BUK missile that downed the plane, but in an interview with TIME, separatists leaders claimed they had nothing to do with the incident.
What was a passenger plane doing anywhere near the area? As it turns out, aviation authorities had addressed the Ukraine situation and taken precautions. They just didn’t think non-combatant planes flying at 33,000 feet were at risk. Flight restrictions often apply only under certain altitudes. Planes are most exposed to ground-level threats when they’re taking off and landing—that’s when they’re within range of small arms and shoulder-mounted anti-aircraft missiles.
Malaysia Airlines had flown this route repeatedly over the past several weeks without incident, as had other carriers.
The SA-11 "Buk" is designed to engage military aircraft and missiles at altitudes of up to 72,000ft. It is in service with the Russian and Ukrainian armed forces, as well as other forces around the world.
Reports from Ukraine suggested a BUK had been smuggled in the dead of night into Russia soon after the plane was blasted out of the sky on Thursday last week.
It came after images were released of a launcher rumbling through Torez, held by pro-Russian separatists, just two hours before the Malaysia Airlines flight was shot down.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2699170/Is-BUK-missile-launcher-shot-MH17-smuggled-Russia-Motorist-captures-military-truck-carrying-BUK-M1-border-town.html#ixzz383f42eoF
Michael S.'s confused and self-contradictory contribution seems to propose that the MUA adopt a form of unconditional internationalism which may have been appropriate in Europe in the early 20th Century:
"... The MUA seems intent on depriving its foreign comrades of work. ..."
... but would be suicidal for the MUA to adopt in the race-to-the-bottom globalised world economy of 2014. Michael S. continues:
Also these foreign workers don't necessarily qualify for residence in Australia based on their temporary work in Australian waters; so they don't necessarily contribute to the permanent glut caused by mass migration of wealthy opportunists into Australia.
What point Michael S. is trying to make here escapes me. Australian seamen should hang their hopes on foreign crews, who have taken their jobs, "not necessarily" being given permanent residence in Australia?
The post continues on a confusing meander. Michael then complains that "the MUA benefits from imposing the requirement to break up [foreign] crews when they enter Australian waters and imposing its own construction crew on the vessels' management." Michael objects to how this requirement "exposes foreign contractors to unpredictable cost and schedule risk in Australia."
Michael claims that "The offshore industry generally has high safety standards." Then, contrary to that claim, he states, "Displacing foreign crews with Australian crews does not necessarily improve safety." ?
Michael then wanders off on a tangent into the debate about global poverty, refugees and the boat people. Then he asks rhetorically:
Does this petition misleadingly depict MUA members as having their human rights violated as if they are "starving refugees"?
No, Michael, the petition doesn't attempt to liken MUA members to starving refugees. Should we wait until the working conditions of Australian workers, including the waterfront workforce and seamen, have been reduced to Third World conditions (as is happening in the United States) before we deem them worthy of support?
Michael then argues:
The real issue here is not the crew on foreign contractor vessels that temporarily enter Australia; it is the mass migration of relatively wealthy opportunists who have a net negative impact on Australia's economy ...
Why can't you see that these two issues are, in fact, part and parcel of the ruling elite's attempt to destroy the living standards of all Australians who now enjoy decent living standards, whether they are middle class professionals or workers, such as members of the MUA?
Michael continues:
Foreign contractor vessels should arguably be allowed to choose their own crews. Imagine if all foreign contractors boycotted Australia because of this MUA restriction. Necessity would then defend foreign contractor rights to make their own hiring decisions without the interference of the MUA. Without these foreign construction vessels Australia's offshore industry would be severely disabled. Many believe that it is currently being disabled by the MUA.
Foreign shipping companies would (arguably(?)) be justified in boycotting Australia if the MUA were not to allow shipping bosses to choose the cheapest and most servile crews to work in Australian waters?
Subject was: "Biased and Incorrect".
This article is biased and incorrect. The main picture used for this article is cropped and actually contains a third person which is wearing a hooded sweater that says "I am Russian" in Russian ...
Editorial comment: Perhaps you could show us where the original uncropped image is? I am not aware of any evidence of pro-Russians or Russian government agents working alongside Nazis, like those shown in the above picture, against the government of then President Viktor Yanukovych. If there were any so openly pro-Russian anti-government protesters, as you claim, then surely there would be abundant film and photographic evidence? - Ed
Captain Obvious wrote:
The Internet allows every man and woman free access to information. The truth is out there for anyone who wants it.
So, on which Internet pages can your own claims can be verified?
Captain Obvious wrote:
They fed [the soldiers of the Red Army] lies, disinformation, and propaganda. They did their best to invoke the inner sadist in every soldier and let them loose on the "fascist invaders".
The Nazi German invaders and their Romanian, Bulgarian and Hungarian allies were not fascist invaders? Are you saying that they were liberating the Soviet Union from communist tyranny?
13,684,692 Soviet civilians died as a result of the Nazi invasion in addition to 8.7 million military dead according to one estimate. That is a total of 22,400,000 who died as a result of the Nazi invasion. Add to that:
| Country | Total dead (estimates) |
| Poland | 5.62 million - 5.82 million |
| Yugoslavia | 1.03 million - 1.7 million |
| Greece | 0.32 million - 0.81 million |
... killed by the Nazis and their allies.
Between 6 million Jews and between 130,565 and 285,650 Romanies perished in the Nazi death camps. (Some of these deaths are included in the figures above.) Hitler planned to exterminate 25 million inhabitants of Eastern Europe and Russia in order to create "lebensraum" on which German ubermenschen were to settle and breed.
No-one has attempted to deny the political repression carried out by the Soviet Union in Eastern Europe, nor excuse the brutality of some Red Army soldiers towards the people of Germany and other Eastern European countries, but how anyone can claim that instances of rape by brutalised soldiers, who had just gone through such a horrific ordeal and had seen so many of their own people perish, is worse than the war crimes and attempted genocide by the Third Reich is beyond me.
The comment below is a continuation of the abovementioned Online Opinion forum discussion on Syria. It was posted on 12 July 2014. Nothing further has, so far, been posted since to that forum. - Ed
As of 30 May 2015, over 20 months later, nothing further has been added. - Ed
At (previous post), Plantagenet wrote, "Your odd posts which appear to be blaming Western and Sunni Governments for the sins of Syria's Shiite regime are more than a little strange. Are you sending this stuff from Damascus?"
Why strange? Because they don't swallow the nonsense put out by our press? The explanations we get for NATO shennanigans are a lot stranger than reality, IMHO.
I'm writing from Melbourne, but the video I linked to was of US observers filmed in a UN forum. I am blaming the US/NATO because I do not see how a civil war unsupported by the majority of Syrians could have gone on so long in the absence of their underwriting, interference and massive propaganda. The Syrian government was not and is not a 'regime', nor is it religious. Syria is a non-sectarian state. Much of its law resembles the French civil code as usually happens to once-French colonies. Religious extremism is coming from the outside, including the awful Gulf States in league with NATO. Syria contains several strong tribes, used to settling differences between them. Their members are of all kinds of religions and non-religions. Outside interference is destroying a functional state. I have a background in petroleum politics so I can see why US/NATO is messing around in this region, trying to isolate both Iran and Russia. My knowledge here alerted me to the extreme superficiality of mainstream press reporting, a la Murdoch, Fairfax, CNN. I did some research by talking to a lot of Syrians, here and elsewhere and using other news sources. Syrian Girl Partisan is a fantastic source you may not have heard of: Two weeks prior to recently concluded elections Syrian Girl argues case for Syria at http://candobetter.net/?q=node/3861 and (articles about) Mother Agnes Mariam: http://candobetter.net/?q=taxonomy/term/4510 .
NOTE: I also tried to find out why Bashar al Assad was supposed to be such a brutal dictator. I have yet to find out why. Do you know why? I promise you I have looked long and hard. Even to Hilary Clinton's reasons for viewing Bashar this way in her diary on her role as US Secretary of State, e.g. here: Review: Hillary Clinton's Hard Choices - the Syria Chapter at http://candobetter.net/?q=node/3906 .
The following was added to the forum discussion about Syria, referred to above. As Paul Night has already advised, the article and nearly all of the posted comments are a waste of most people's time. Some of the factual contributions content could be of interest to scholars of obscure, specialised aspects of Syrian history, but little is relevant to the life and-death struggle that the Syrian people have faced these last three years. An exception is the post which preceded that post. That post also confirms what we have said about Syria on candobetter.
Over 160,000 Syrians have died since March 2011 as a direct consequence of the decision by the rulers of the Western 'democracies' and Israel together with the dictatorial rulers of Saudi Arabia and Qatar, to launch a war against the people of Syria and its government. Australian governments, including the previous 'Labor' government, and particularly former Foreign Minister Bob Carr, have been shamefully complicit in this grotesque crime against humanity. The Australian 'news' media has also misled the Australian public about Syria since March 2011.
Conclusive proof can be found in the video the Press Conference of 3 Jun 2014 held by the United Nations Syrian ambassador, Bashar Al-Jaafri, following the Syrian elections on 20 June 2014. See http://candobetter.net/?q=node/3888
http://candobetter.net/?q=syria
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnFQd4wBXnk http://www.globalresearch.ca/syrias-press-conference-the-united-nations-doesnt-want-you-to-see/5387795
At this press conference sat five United States citizens who observed the elections. They all confirmed what had already been known to people who were informed about Syria - that the Syrian people overwhelmingly support President Bashar al-Assad and had shown this in the elections of 3 June 2013 which were fair and transparent:
10,319,723 or 88.7% of the 11,634,412 who voted or 73.4% (the figure should be 65.13% - see Footnote 2 above - Ed) of all 15,845,575 Syrians eligible to vote, voted for Bashar al-Assad.
What other political leader, can claim to enjoy anywhere near as much support? Compare this support for President al-Assad with that achieved by President Obama in 2012. compared to 73.4% of all Syrians, both at home and abroad, with the enormous difficulties they faced, a mere 29.7% of eligible voters voted for Barack Obama in December 2012 (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,_2012 http://elections.gmu.edu/Turnout_2012G.html).
The fact that the Syrian Arab Army still controls nearly all of Syria after 3 years of conflict is further confirmation that claims that Bashar al-Assad has overwhelming support. What dictator, so hated and corrupt as has beenS claimed by the media has been able to cling to power, without any help from a foreign army of occupation, for so long?
DennisK,
No-one here has attempted to cover up or apologise for the monstrous crimes of Stalin against Russians, Ukrainians, Poles, Caucasians, Crimean Tatars, other East Europeans and Germans.
However, to equate Stalin's crimes with those of the Nazi Third Reich is contrary to the evidence.
If the "Communists" were no better than the Nazis, how do you explain the great heroism and terrible sacrifice of the Soviet people, including Ukrainians, against the Nazi invaders during the Second World War?
Make no mistake. The victory of the Red Army saved humanity from entering new era of death and slavery.
Today, in 2014, the same fate awaits humanity if the Nazis are allowed to win in Ukraine.
TODAY: JONATHAN MOYLAN TO BE SENTENCED IN SUPREME COURT, FACES 10YRS FOR HOAX PRESS RELEASE
Friday July 11th, 2014. Supreme Court of NSW, 184 Phillip St, Sydney.
Jonathan Moylan, 26, will appear for sentencing at the Supreme Court in Sydney at 10am today. Supporters will be outside court from 9:30am.
In January 2013 Moylan issued a press release on ANZ letterhead saying the bank had withdrawn its $1.2 billion loan facility from Whitehaven’s Maules Creek Coal Project on environmental and ethical grounds. Whitehaven’s share price temporarily fell before quickly recovering.
Moylan is charged under section 1041E of the Corporations Act, pertaining to the making of false or misleading statements, and faces ten years in prison and a $765,000 fine.
Rick Laird, farmer from Maules Creek whose family has farmed in the district for over 150 years, has travelled to Sydney to support Jonathan Moylan.
“ANZ’s loan means Whitehaven Coal can turn Maules Creek from a farming village into an open-cut pit. We rely on groundwater to water our livestock and for our household water supply, and the Whitehaven coal mine will lower our water table by 5-10 metres," said Rick Laird.
“We’ve been fighting this mine for years, and the stand that Jono took means that people now know what’s happening at Maules Creek.
“Jono stood with us, and now we’re here to stand with Jono,” said Rick Laird.
Ros Druce from the Maules Creek Community Council traveled to Sydney for the first time in two decades to support Jonathan Moylan at the Supreme Court today.
“Whitehaven’s coal mine threatens to wipe Maules Creek off the map. The Maules Creek community stands with Jono,” she said.
FOR COMMENT: Rick Laird, Maules Creek farmer on 0427 056 418
FOR MEDIA ASSISTANCE: Nicola Paris on 0422 990 040, Madeleine Egan on 0423 100 113
IMAGES: High-resolution photographs will be available from ~10am at https://www.flickr.com/photos/standwithjono/sets/72157645609183785/
Jonathan Moylan will not be available for comment before sentencing. His availability to comment after sentencing is dependent upon the sentence handed down.
BACKGROUND
ANZ provides a $1.2 billion loan facility to Whitehaven Coal, primarily intended to develop the Maules Creek Coal Project. The Maules Creek Coal Project is a new open-cut coal mine being developed in Leard State Forest and adjacent farm land near Maules Creek in north west NSW.
On the day of the hoax, Whitehaven Coal’s (WHC) share price dropped from $3.52 to $3.21 before a trading halt, and bounced back to $3.53 within an hour of trading resuming. Since January 2013, Whitehaven's share price has plummeted in the face of the slumping global coal price, closing at $1.45 yesterday.
Leard State Forest is located between Narrabri and Boggabri, it includes the most extensive and intact stands of the nationally-listed and critically endangered Box-Gum Woodland remaining on the Australian continent. The forest is home to 396 species of plants and animals and includes habitat for 34 threatened species and several endangered ecological communities.
The Maules Creek Coal Project is approved to extract up to 13 million tonnes of coal annually, which is estimated to produce 30 million tonnes of CO2 equivalent per year. The mine is expected to operate for more than 30 years. The coal will be railed from the mine in north west NSW to the port of Newcastle for export. The coal mine project boundary is approximately 5 kilometres from the Maules Creek township.
The following has been added to the forum discussion on johnquiggin.com and, as of 2:46pm on 8 Jul 2014, is awaiting moderation.
alfred venison (@ #35) wrote:
Do you see a pattern?
The whole world would have been enslaved for decades, if not centuries, by the Nazis and their allies had it not been for the courage and sacrifice of many millions in the Soviet Union, Eastern Europe and China. However, much of the credit also belongs to the Western democracies, particularly the United States President Franklin Delano Roosevelt (FDR). Without the entry of the United States into the war, even the sacrifice of the Soviet people may not have prevented victory by Nazi Germany. [1]
Humanity lost an opportunity to prevent the Second World War and a further 60 million deaths, when the when the Russian Revolution of October 1917 failed to spread to the rest of Europe. Chances to end war forever were lost on a number of occasions. These include:
* Germany in 1919, 1920 or 1923[2]. If revolution had succeeded on any one of these occasions, mention of Hitler's Nazi Party would be no more than a footnote in some history books. Further chances were lost, again in Germany in 1933, when Stalin effectively ordered the German Communist Party (KPD) to surrender to the Nazi putschists at a time when rank-and-file members of the KPD and the Social Democratic Party (SPD) were screaming out for united action.
* Spain (1936-1937), where Stalin's meddling caused anti-fascist Spaniards to seize defeat from the jaws of victory.[3],[4]
Footnote[s]
[1] Had America not entered the war, the triumph of Nazi Germany over the Soviet Union, even with the heroism and the terrible sacrifice of the Soviet people, would have been almost certain. In 1941, Americans, who had lost nearly 117,000 lives in the pointless slaughter then known by some as "The Great War", were firmly opposed to entering the Second World War. Almost every other war fought by America in its history has not been just, but, on this occasion, the peril that humanity faced at the hands of Nazi Germany, Fascist Italy and the Japanese Empire made America's entry into the war not only justified, but necessary. FDR understood this and resorted to means that, at face value, seem unconscionable, reckless and Macchiavellian. As documented in "Day of Deceit" (1999) by Robert Stinnett FDR tricked the Japanese Empire into "firing the first shot" by launching the attack on the United States naval base at Pearl Harbour. (The otherwise excellent historian Oliver Stone disputes this.) After the attack, opposition to war amongst the American public vanished. Almost certainly the entry of the United States into the Second World War prevented the triumph of Nazi Germany and its allies.
[2] The Lost Revolution: Germany 1918-23 (1997) by Chris Harman (1942-2009).
[3] Homage to Catalonia (1938) by George Orwell (1903-1950)
[4] Revolution and Counter-revolution in Spain (1938) by Felix Morrow (1996-1988). Sadly, a free on-line version of the book seems no longer to be available.
The comment below was posted to the abovementioned forum discussion on johnquiggin.com. Minor grammatical and factual errors have been corrected and further links, which cannot be added to posts on johnquiggin.com (as a precaution against forum spam) have been added here. The account of the shameful conduct by the British Army at the start of the First IndoChina War in Hanoi in August 1945 has been expanded.
J-D (@ #7, 1 Jul 2014) wrote:
I don't accept it as established fact that the Allies could have prevented the Germans from seizing control of Italy in 1943.
Nor is it an "established fact" that the British and Americans, with total air and naval supremacy could not have prevented Germany's conquest of Italy in July 1943.
What is an established fact is that they didn't even try.
Nor did the commanders of the Italian Army serving the new supposedly anti-fascist government. The one Italian general who did try to prevent the German invasion was tried and executed as a war criminal by the British in 1946. Whilst few Italians, who had killed Ethiopians in 1936 with poison gas were, in any way, held to account for their crimes, this general was tried and executed. His "war crime" was that three British soldiers were killed attempting to escape from prisoner-of-war camps under his command. (The name of the Italian General escapes me, but I watched a documentary on ABC TV about it, possibly around 2006).
It is also an established fact that the Americans and British conquered the rest of the Italian Peninsula in the most inept and unimaginative way possible over the next 21 months. Instead of using their naval and air supremacy imaginatively (with the arguable exception of the ineptly managed seaborne landing at Anzio in January 1944), they fought bloody battles of attrition all the way up the peninsula at a cost of over 300,000 allied dead and wounded in a addition to 159,000 Italian civilians dead.
I have already shown that, in 1944, after the British landed in Greece, they disarmed resistance fighters whilst secretly re-arming those Greeks who had collaborated with the Nazi invaders. The British subsequently unleashed these former Nazi collaborators onto their fellow countrymen in a bloody civil war. In the meantime, partisans who could have blocked the retreat of Germans along roads beneath mountains they controlled, were prevented from doing so.
Similar events occurred in Vietnam and Korea. In Korea, the Americans rearmed Koreans who had collaborated with the Japanese, whilst brutally repressing those who had fought against the Japanese.
In Vietnam in August 1945, the British started shooting Viet Minh who had resisted the Japanese, before they handed Vietnam handed back to its former colonial rulers, the French. Somehwhat like what they had done the previous year in Greece and as the Americans were doing in Korea, the British armed captured Japanese soldiers and turned them on the VietMinh. (It is hard to find sources which confirm this on the web. This episode, right at the start of the Cold War, has been overlooked in recent years, even by dissident bloggers. One source, which is far better than most, but still flawed in some repects, is "The Vietnam Wars" (1992) by Marilyn Young. The only resource I could find on the Web is a Wikipedia page, Wikipedia page which, whilst very detailed and informative, is not without serious flaws and is biased.)
Given all the above crimes of the British and American military commanders in the Second World War and in subsequent years, why shouldn't we presume that they also allowed the Germans to reconquer Italy in July 1943, with all its terrible consequences, for the worst possible motives?
With the United States preoccupied elsewhere, Central American gangs have grown in power and numbers; today, local officials estimate their size at 70,000-100,000 members. The marabuntas, or maras, as they are known (after a deadly species of local ants), now pose the most serious challenge to peace in the region since the end of Central America's civil wars. In the past few years, as Washington has focused its attention on the Middle East, it has virtually ignored a dangerous phenomenon close to home.
San Petro Sula, Honduras, has a highest murder rate in the world, higher than in Afghanistan or Syria! While America has been distracted by the Middle East, there's been a growing power of Central America's gangs and their ability to shuttle between their home countries and the United States.
The violence currently rocking Honduras, El Salvador, and Guatemala is not only causing a refugee crisis in the United States. Every country in the region has also been affected as children are running for their lives and seeking safety wherever they can find it.
According to the UNHCR, asylum requests from Honduran, El Salvadoran, and Guatemalan nationals have increased 712 percent in the neighboring nations of Mexico, Panama, Nicaragua, Costa Rica, and Belize since 2009. [Center For American Progress, 6/18/14]
The United States is not the only country seeing an influx of migrants from the Northern Triangle. Between the years of 2008 and 2013 the UN recorded an increase of 712 percent in the number of individuals leaving that region and settling in places like Mexico, Panama, Belize and Costa Rica. The US government projects that 95 percent of South American cocaine travels through Central America and Mexico before landing in the states. They recruit and forcefully use children to carry out their activities. Those that do not participate are made examples of through kidnapping, torture, or murder.
Instability breeds poverty, desperation, violence that inevitably bleeds into neighboring nations.
The tens of thousands of Central American youths will likely never be deported and many will be released in the U.S. while they are being “processed.” Besides receiving food and shelter, the Honduran newspaper article says, kids will receive English classes, participate in sports and other programs while their relatives are tracked down in the U.S.
Texas Gov. Rick Perry said the unaccompanied alien children (UACs) should be returned to their countries rather than released to an adult in the U.S. "Allowing them to remain here will only encourage the next group of individuals to undertake this dangerous and life-threatening journey here," Perry said. When the Obama Administration releases UACs to adults in the U.S., no checks are done to determine if they are legally present". (NumbersUSA)https://www.numbersusa.com/news?f[0]=field_sub_type%3A2056
The majority of Central America has been suffering from drought, which is only worsened by overpopulation. Currently, overpopulation is factoring into drought, slums, and violence in Central America. With individual countries facing separate populations problems and becoming more fragile, there are few places to find help. Young, impoverished and uneducated young people get captured by the lure of drug money, and weapons. It's a downward cycle of decline.
The following was added to the abovementioned discussion.
Australian losses, on the Western Front in the 18 months from March 1916 until November 1918, were far higher than at Gallipoli in the 8 months from April until December 1914. Over 50,000,1 or, on average, 1,571 per month, died on the Western front compared to 8,141 or 1,017 per month at Gallipoli. If we put aside the fact that no side's cause had merit in the First World War, the plan to attack Gallipoli, even if it failed, showed vision and initiative compared to the unimaginative and bloody war of attrition subsequently fought on the Western Front.
Almost none of the ostensibly objective and critical histories of the Gallipoli campaign discuss the campaign in its wider context – the nearby Balkans campaign, which was a resumption a the Balkan Wars of 1912-13, or the Ottoman military campaign against Armenians, which ended in attempted genocide of Armenians and the eventual rescue of some in 1920 in the newly formed Armenian Soviet Socialist Republic established by Lenin and Trotsky.
An exception is Bruce Page, in the "The Murdoch Archipelago" (2003). He shows how Rupert Murdoch's father, Keith Murdoch, who has been lionised for his denunciation of the Gallipoli campaign and the supposedly incompetent British generals in command, had little to say about the subsequent even more terrible carnage of Australians on the Western Front.
1. ↑ This approximate figure is arrived by subtracting, from Australia's First World War death toll of 60,0000 (I couldn't find any figure more accurate than this unlikely multiple of 10,000 even on the Australian War memorial Web site) the following: 1,394 in Egypt and Palestine, 171 naval fatalities to get 50,294.
The following was posted to a discussion on johnquiggin.com. Further discussion, there or here, is encouraged.
J-D (@ #13) writes that I have provided no evidence that the Second World War could have ended in 1943.
Have you looked at the article, which I linked to, J-D?
At (@ #9) I pointed out that the Italians liberated the whole of Italy themselves when they overthrew Mussolini in July 1943. Surely you must ask yourself why the subsequent invasion of the whole Italian peninsula by Italy's former ally, Nazi Germany, was not prevented, with the British and American armies in Sicily and with total (as I believe I recall) air superiority over Italy all the way up to the Brenner Pass at the Austrian border through which all of Germany's ground forces had to move by rail?
Can't you see that if Italy had remained liberated after July 1943, as surely must have been possible, that the war could have finished that year?
As I showed in my linked article, the Western allies threw away other opportunities to quickly liberate large areas of occupied territory and capture or eliminate large numbers of German soldiers on the ground. Surely if they hadn't thrown these opportunities away, the war could have ended much sooner than may 1945. 'Lost' opportunities to more quickly end the war also include:
1. During the British invasion of Greece in 1944, the British, with total air superiority over the skies of Greece, allowed nearly all of the occupying German armies to escape as the British turned their guns on ELAS resistance fighters and re-armed Greeks who had collaborated with the Nazis. ELAS fighters, who controlled the mountains above the roads through which the German Armies had to retreat, were prevented from attacking the retreating Germans.
2. After the Second Battle of El Alemain from October to November 1942, Rommel's forces were allowed to retreat, when their retreat could easily have been cut off on the ground and with aerial bombardment. (I have momentarily mislaid a book with a title somewhat like "Great Battles of the Second World War" in which this was shown. I will cite from this book when I find it.)
The introductory paragraph at the top of this post is formatted as follows: "<p style="font-size:80%;line-height;120%;background-color:#EDF5FA;"> " The following was <a href="http://johnquiggin.com/2014/06/28/the-100-years-war/comment-page-1/#comment-236471">posted</a> ... <\p>" - James
From Global Research article U.S. Politicians “Living the High Life” at Taxpayers Expense Even After Leaving Office of 24/6/14.
Since leaving the White House, the Clintons have earned at least 100 million dollars and currently have a net worth of up to 50 million dollars. So why in the world do the taxpayers need to give Bill Clinton $944,000 to fund his extravagant lifestyle in 2014? If ordinary Americans truly understood how much money many former politicians are being handed every year they would go bananas.
According to a Congressional Research Service report that was published earlier this year, the federal government has given a total of nearly 16 million dollars to Bill Clinton since 2001. Each one of those dollars is a dollar that some U.S. taxpayer worked really hard for or that we had to borrow. Yes, we don’t want our former presidents to go broke for a whole bunch of reasons, but it is absolutely absurd that we are showering them with millions upon millions of dollars.
From Global Research, (28/11/14).
Once upon a time, Hillary Rodham, the 1969 Wellesley valedictorian, studied the organizing tactics of Saul Alinsky and backed Eugene McCarthy’s presidential run. At commencement, she spoke of a conservative strain in New Left protests that harked back to old values and ideals, and she dared to challenge the United States Senator who preceded her on the podium.
Were she still among us, that passionate young woman would surely oppose the nomination of Hillary Rodham Clinton (HRC) for the U.S. presidency.
I suppose you've read about sikorski:-
Poland Foreign Minister Sikorski: 'We Gave United States a Blow Job' for Nothing (23/6/14) International Business Times at https://uk.news.yahoo.com/poland-foreign-minister-sikorski-gave-united-states-blow-141057626.html
a.v.
This comment has been adapted to be posted as an article. - Ed, 27 Jun 14
Good article - thanks Sally,
In relation to 'free-trade' try this:
“Free Trade” Pacts Were Always About Weakening Nation-States to Promote Rule by Multinationals
Extract:
From a Joint Economic Committee hearing conducted just after a major series of global trade talks known as the “Kennedy round”, from 1964-1967:
"But to fulfill its full potential the multinational corporation must be able to operate with little regard for national boundaries – or, in other words, for restrictions imposed by individual national governments."
In relation to Universities:
Servants of Power: Higher Education in an Era of Corporate Control
Extract:
"In Giroux's words, "Casino capitalism does more than infuse market values into every aspect of higher education; it wages a full-fledged assault on public goods, democratic public spheres, and the role of education in creating an informed and enlightened citizenry.""
A court in Cairo found Australia's Peter Greste, Mohamed Fahmy and Baher Mohamed guilty of spreading false news. Hundreds of journalist are protesting in London for Peter Greste's 7 years imprisonment. He's been charged with the spreading of "false news". and for supporting the Muslim Brotherhood. It puts every international journalist at risk.
Greste was arrested in Cairo with colleagues at the end of December 2013. The interior ministry said the journalists were accused of news reporting which was "damaging to national security".
This kind of verdict does nothing to support Egypt's claim to be on a transition to democracy, and the Australian Government urges the new government of Egypt to reflect on what message is being sent to the world about the situation in Egypt. Egypt is the largest and most important country in the Arab world. Much of Egypt’s crisis comes down to a battle over identity. Morsi and the Muslim Brotherhood overestimated the extent to which Egyptians identify with Islam. Citizens identify less and less with their countries and identify more and more with Islam and as Arabs.
Amnesty International petition for Peter Greste:
Matthew, my apologies for being so slow to reply. Thank you for your interest. As the Second World War is now being re-fought in Ukraine, I think this issue is vitally important. Whilst I support the Russian Government and anti-Nazi Ukrainians in Crimea and East Ukraine, their overly simple understanding of the Second World War, which seems largely similar to what is shown on RT and Voice of Russia, makes it harder to politically undermine the fascist Ukrainian regime they are defending themselves against.1
Matthew wrote:
I think they (the Allies, but mainly US) allowed the Italian resistance to be unsupported and thus slaughtered by the Germans and through lack of support towards the end of the war ...
I have lost the article I read. I am confident the citations can be supplied by some knowledgable person out there. Anyone who can confirm (or disprove) what I write, is encouraged to do so. What I recall is this: After Rome was liberated, the Americans ceased their offensive against the Germans. They also ordered the Italian partisans to cease operations. The occuppying Germans, no longer pinned down by an allied offensive from the south or partisan attacks in their rear, were free to concentrate their own forces to attack the partisans. The partisans suffered heavy casualties as a result.
Matthew wrote:
... these people were the war heroes, and were organised and would have resisted, or offered alternatives to the CIA appointed leaders at the end of the war.
Chapter 2 "Italy 1947-1948: Free elections, Hollywood Style" (pp23-31), of The CIA: A forgotten history (1986) by William Blum, covers this. The United States spent a massive amount of money to support the Christian Democrats against the Coalition of the PCI and PSI (Socialist Party of Italy). Amongst other measures, "the State Department ... ruled that any Italians known to have voted for the Communists would not even be allowed to ... enter [the United States]" which many Italians considered a "terrestrial paradise".
Matthew wrote:
I think those that made it through may also have been targeted as communists, and rounded up after the war.
Possibly after the electoral defeat of 1948, it seems likely that Communists would have been persecuted. But, immediately after the end of the Second World War, even though they did not form government, the communist partisans were a powerful and armed force. It would not have been wise for the CIA and their Italian allies to attempt to persecute the communists in those years.
1. ↑ As I said elsewhere, given the brutality that Ukrainians had endured at the hands of Stalin, from the late 1920's, it is hardly surprising that many Ukrainians including the Stepan Bandera made the terrible mistake of embracing the Nazi invaders as liberators in June 1941. The fact that the Nazi occupiers "arrested the newly formed [Ukrainian] government and sent them [including Stepan Bandera] to concentration camps in Germany ... until September 1944" (see Wikipedia) suggests to me that Stepan Bandera was hoodwinked by Nazi promises which they never intended to keep for Ukranians, whom they considered to be inferior 'untermenschen'. It is ironic that Ukranians are resurrecting this Nazi dream that was their nightmare.
Thank you.
Now I do remember something - very vague - so please bear with me. I think they (the Allies, but mainly US) allowed the Italian resistance to be unsupported and thus slaughtered by the Germans and through lack of support towards the end of the war because – as you suggest – these people were the war heroes, and were organised and would have resisted, or offered alternatives to the CIA appointed leaders at the end of the war. I think those that made it through may also have been targeted as communists, and rounded up after the war. I will try and recall where I read this information, and if I can I will post it here. Someone else might know about this however - so if you anyone does - please do reply.
Matthew Wrote:
I look forward to [what] you will write ... regarding Western interests prolonging the Second World War.
I will deal with this later. But, briefly for now:
As I mentioned above, Italy was completely liberated by the Italians themselves when they overthrew Mussolini's fascist tyranny in in July 1943. Yet somehow, the German Army managed to reconquer almost all of the Italian peninsula again, and the Western allies had to fight for 20 bloody and destructive months all the way up the Italian Peninsula again. According to Wikipedia the Western allies suffered over 300,00 casualties, from 3 September 1943, until the war in Italy ended 20 months later on 2 May 1945. 152,940 Italian civilians also died.
So, how did the Western allies and their the supposed Italian allies allow this to happen? I believe the Allies had total air superiority at the time. If they didn't they were certainly still able bombard much of Nazi-occupied Europe from the air. Compared to cost the effort and required to bomb German cities, it should have required little effort to stop German infantry, artillery and tanks crossing the the Austrian/Italian border by rail at the Brenner Pass.
One book, which touches on this aspect of Southern European history, is "Captain Correlli's Mandelin" (1994), which, in 2001, was released as a film starring Nicholas Cage. It describes how the Germans fought and massacred Italian soldiers in Greece who had sided with the Allies.
After the war, one Italian general was executed by the British as a war criminal, I believe in 1946. (I forget the details, including his name, but I watched a documentary on ABC television, possibly in 2006, or possibly earlier. If anyone else knows of this matter or of the documentary, please let me know.) The "war crime" for which this Italian General was executed was that, under his command, three British prisoners of war were killed while trying to escape captivity. His real crime in the eyes of his Western allied executioners was that he was the one Italian general to seriously fight against the German invasion of Italian Italy in 1943. No doubt, his continued presence in Italy would have make it very difficult for the CIA to rort the Italian elections in 1948, causing the Italian Communist Party (PCI) to lose to 'former' fascist candidates.
In Greece, communist partisans, fought heroically against the Nazi occupation from 1941 until 1944. I will cite, what I posted to the ABC web site on 17 July 2011:
I think Rear Vision owes to the Greek people and to its Australian audience to tell the truth about Greek history.
The account of the Greek Civil War is untrue. The Greek Communist Party led the resistance to the German occupation and had overwhelming support of the Greek people. In 1944, the British tricked the Communist partisans into disarming whilst they secretly re-armed those who had collaborated with the Germans against fellow citizens. They were able to do this because of the betrayal of the Greek Communist Party and the unquestioning support for Stalin by the Greek Communist Party. The Greek Communist Party abused its support from the Greek people to convince then to lay down their weapons. The result was a massacre of the most patriotic Greeks by former German collaborators whilst the British looked on. At this time, the heroic partisan leader Aris Velouchiotis was murdered by collaborators. He died in the knowledge that the Greek Communist Party leaders that he supported had denounced him as a traitor for refusing to lay down his arms.
One of the placards at the mass Greek protests against the British read: "The Germans are back".
Patriotic Greeks could have so easily beaten the British and the former German collaborators in the war of 1944 and the subsequent civil war from 1946-1949 if they were not so appallingly misled by the Greek Communist Party.
For a truthful account of the Greek Civil War please read "The Kapetanios" written about 1970 by Frenchman Dominique Eudes.
Another critical aspect of the book not touched on in the above contribution, is that in 1944, after the British Army had landed the Communist Greek Partisans were ordered, by the British and the Greek Communist Party (KKE) under instructions from Stalin, to allow the defeated Germans to retreat:
Endless convoys of Germans were pulling out of Athens and the South of Greece. Amfissa, at the foot of Mount Parnassus, was a crucial staging post for the smooth operation of the retreat. Through Colonel Tsamakos, Ionnadis ordered ten battalions (4,000 men) to gather at the exit of the town.
Minor skirmishes between patrols had been going on there since 1 October, and the arrangements were completed within a few days, but the order for attack did not arrive. German convoys filed past on the road below under the partisans' yearning noses. A little squeeze on a single trigger could start the broadside that would bring the procession to an untidy halt.
Captain Grigoriadis watched the cohorts of lorries passing, two by two, stuffed with troops, arms and munitions. The andartes were holding themselves in check, assuming their General Staff was waiting for a particularly juicy convoy before giving the order to attack. While they waited, incredible quantities of booty were slipping through their fingers. The exasperating, unconsummated ambush lasted eleven days. Eleven days in which the partisans had nothing to do but count the game wriggling through their lines.
Italy and Greece are only two examples. Another is the Second Battle of El Elamein in Egypt 1942. An account I read recently (the title of the book was something like "Great Battles of the Second world War" – I will cite later) showed that British 8th Army, led by General Montgomery, particularly with total air superiority, could easily have prevented the retreat of Rommel's Afrika Corps and ended the whole North African desert war then and there, but he chose not to. So, instead, the war in North Africa lasted until May 1943. The Americans were required to land in Algeria and Morocco in November 1942 instead of launching the Second Front in Europe, promised to Stalin.
Very interesting. I look forward to the article you mention you will write in your note regarding Western interests prolongiong the second world war.
Perhaps the access to some news websites might be a forewarning of what to expect with the loss of net neutrality , which is another thing on the agenda of large and multinational organisations.
Candobetter writer drew my attention to this absurdly phrased and scary explanation of Australian law on freedom of information, which says:
What is in the public interest?
Under the Government Information (Public Access) Act 2009 (GIPA Act), all government agencies must disclose or release information unless there is an overriding public interest against disclosure. When deciding whether to release information, staff must apply the public interest test.
" There are only limited and specific interests against disclosure that an agency can take into account. These are:
law enforcement and security
individual rights, judicial processes and natural justice
responsible and effective government
business interests
environment, culture, economy and other matters
secrecy and exemption provisions in other laws."
As Michael commented, "This is a great way for a dictatorship to operate."
Candobetter.net Editorial Comment on the following:
[See below for actual comment.]
We think that the writer makes good points about the overwhelming size of the investor population overseas and that China is a good example of a large number of people who could overwhelm the interests of Australian home-buyers and citizens generally by raising the cost of housing and raising the population numbers further. We also would like to point out that other big populations are also investing in Australia, such as India. Furthermore many other foreign investors are in the mix, such as Germany, Singapore and Qatar. One also finds special encouraging arrangements from the NFIRB for specific countries and governments, such as Singapore.We would refer readers to the Australian National Foreign Investment Review Board, for details and also to view the policies that encourage investment in land-clearing and new building. In fact, we need look no further than our own government for the agents of our increasing dispossession. After all, they invite these foreign investors and give Australians no say in the matter.
We want to be clear, however, that we do not agree with singling out any particular nationality or ethnic group as problematic. We are not saying that the writer does this, but we want to be crystal clear. We want to emphasise that our interest in the problem is its numerical value. Furthermore, we note that, without China's support, along with other BRICS countries, for Russian policy, the world would have absolutely nothing to stop a frightening commercial and military US/NATO-based hegemony overtaking everything and everyone, particularly in Syria and Ukraine. In the latter case the Western imperialists are supporting anti-semite Nazis who overthrew the democratically elected government of President Victor Yanukovych in March 2004. Many of us believe that something similar is designed for Australia and that the selling off of land and fuel rights, with the disorganisation and impoverishment of the population here is part of this.>
AUSTRALIA FIRST PARTY-: Whatever will benefit Australia - that we are for;
whatever will harm Australia - that we are against. William Lane :-
PRESS RELEASE
Nominations for the
Australian Peoples Movement Award
The Mao Tse-tung
Order of the Third Hand
are invited from Individuals of The Commonwealth
CRITERIA.
This Award is for Scabs who aid and abet the scourge of Chinese Imperialism in Australia, manifested in their conniving for unwanted exploitive “developments”; the selling and purchase of resources and assets of Our Commonwealth, and the accompanying demographic swarm and cultural recolonisation of our Native Land. It exemplifies a Traitor Class motivated solely by monetary gain, and devoid of any respect or loyalty to the Australian People, our identity, heritage, sovereignty and independence.
The Award is to be granted quartedly, commencing 30th June, 2014, the Anniversary of Lambing Flat Uprising, a premiere folkloric occasion of our European derived civilisation.
The Award is of ongoing character and our Australian Peoples Movement on the Day Of Reckoning will bestow further to recipients.
Please forward the name and address of the person to be nominated, with supporting references, to the address below. Include your own name and address.
AUSTRALIA FIRST PARTY
Identity - Freedom - IndependenceP O Box 223 Croydon 3136. National Contact Line 02 8587 0014www.australiafirst.net email: [email protected]
Australia First Party - Reclaiming Australia for Australians
By over-all planning, we mean planning which takes into consideration the interests of the 600 million people [Candobetter Ed. Something missing in this sentence] of our country. In drawing up plans, handling affairs or thinking over problems, we must proceed from the fact that China has a population of 600 million people, and we must never forget this fact. Mao Tse-tung. 27/2/1957.
I'm referring to the video above. Incredible report! Starts out a little slow, with a Syrian diplomat introducing English speakers from the US who went to observe the Syrian elections. When these observers start talking it is most interesting, most edifying. They are from peace groups and Syrian-US NGOs. Their observations are absolutely fascinating and confirm how utterly dishonest and dangerous the NATO reporting and actions on Syria are. Apparently this film, which was more important than any news I have seen on mainstream press, was broadcast for only 5 minutes by the UN Newscast. It goes on for nearly an hour - all of it rivetting for anyone interested in seeing democracy in action and real reporting. The Syrian diplomat also makes a contribution which, at around the 27 minute mark, talks about Aid from Australia and Luxembourg. Apparently he asked for wheelchairs and some ambulances for people injured in the war in Syria. He waited a year, listening to Australian foreign aid people and others from other nations make tear-jerking speeches about the tragedy in Syria, but he never got ANY wheelchairs, let alone ambulances from pathetic, hypocritical official Australia.
Subject was: "stop talking crap".
I was at Duntroon during the early 80s when it was still a four year course.
Just because you've been in the army doesn't mean you know a thing about Duntroon. It is nothing like the regular army - it is essentially a boarding school run by the cadets. The NCOs and officers have very little contact with cadets outside the classroom.
The ONLY skills RMC teaches you are - polishing your boots, marching, licking the arses of those above you and pissing on those below you. Actually military skills such as shooting, leadership, bushcraft and fitness are considered unimportant. I would consider most of the cadets would have been in the bottom half of the students any of the top Australian universities with regards to intellect, maturity and sporting ability. [eg EVERY Human Movement (exercise science) student at the university of Queensland had a higher HSC score and better sporting ability than 95% of Duntroon cadets.]
At this meeting, and previous Vic First meetings, as well as any Resident Action Group meeting, story after story comes through on how the democratic process has been subverted, and how vested interests are able to bypass resident concerns.
It is clear from this therefore, that the system by which residents can have input into the development of their community is completely, and deliberately broken.
Yet people insist in using it, and hitting their heads up against brick wall. There seems to be some cognitive dissonance. Everyone tells each other how the game is rigged, but continue to play exactly the same game... The government is clearly working against us, so why continue to appeal to the government?
Why? Refusal to face facts? Denial? Are people just slow and silly? Are they uncomfortable thinking outside the box?
Korean airliner KAL 007 shot down by USSR in 1983
The Russian army is not unified and controlled as well as in other developed countries. Maybe the separatists bribed the army to get the weapons, or hijacked it. It needs investigation. Korean Air Lines flight 007 from New York to Seoul (after refueling in Alaska) flew into Russian airspace due to a navigational error and was shot down by Soviet fighter jets. All 269 passengers and crew, which included 63 Americans, were killed. There's an eerie parallel.
Editorial comment: There is much printed and on-line material to suggest that the KAL 007 incident was a staged provocation by the United States. One example is KAL 007 on what-when-how. It cites works on KAL007 including KAL 007-The Cover Up (1987), by David Pearson, which I own and much of which I have read. One outcome of the deaths of 269 people aboard KAL 007 was that public opposition to the deployment in Europe of Cruise and Pershing missiles directed against the USSR was overcome. - Ed