Comments

A perfect example of people keeping animals for their own pleasure, and ending up creating a weird creature that is a disgrace to its kind. If this was an orangutan or a chimpanzee everybody would be jumping up and down and demanding the creature be taken off them, and rightly so.

"The population controllers all have one thing in common: They are mean and misanthropic", according to Angela Shanahan's article. Surely protecting ourselves from over consumption and becoming an over-abundant species is not "mean", but the contrary. If we keep up our rate of human exponential expansion, then future generations will suffer from lack of materials, land and natural resources. To deprive non-human native wildlife from habitat and destroy natural vegetation is totally anthropocentric, greedy and completely selfish. Without functioning and healthy ecological systems our planet would become moribund and sterile. We can't have our wide spaces concreted and paved with roads, infrastructure and housing and expect a "business as usual" approach and just ignore crucial environmental issues. Blind adherence to the economic and democratic demands of limitless growth is dangerous. Animals can become "feral" and a "plague" but humans can't? "The Australian" is a right-wing, conservative and pro-growth "news"paper with obvious bias and a lack of balance and credibility.

Subject was 'censorship'. - JS Why do you continue to change the posting titles in a way that is more in line with your arguments? I'm done with this site, you don't practice what you preach. Editorial Comment: Sometimes we change the titles for either or both of two reasons: 1. To give other site visitors a better idea of what the comment is about; 2. I find the views objectionable, such as applauding the thuggery of the Japanese whalers that could have caused the crew of the sunken Ady Gil to die in the freezing waters of the Southern Ocean. Nothing has been censored. Everything you posted, including the original heading, has been published. We're happy to trust the judgement of other site visitors about the way we choose to present the totality of such comments.

Fortunately I have kept a letter from Kevin Rudd, MP, Leader of the Opposition dated 6th June, 2007, which I have included below. My comments are in parentheses. Kevin Rudd wrote: "I share your abhorrence of whaling. There is absolutely no justification for the slaughter of these amazing animals. "Japan has killed more than 400 whales in Australian waters since 2000........including humpback whales, the mainstay of Australia's $300 million-a-year whale-watching industry." "On 18th May 2007, Federal Labor announced a bold new approach to protect our whales , including commitments to:
  • Take Japan to international courts such as the International Court of Justice for the International Tribunal for the Law of the Sea to end the slaughter of whales;(why more legal advice? just a smokescreen to fool the public)
  • Make formal representations to the Japanese authorities - at bilateral and multilateral meetings - about its practice of whaling (They actually asked Australia to protect them from eco-terrorists - such is the power of 'formal representations'!);
  • Enforce Australian law banning the slaughter of whales in the Australian Whale Sanctuary; (Still waiting Kevin)
  • Monitor and surveillance of whaling vessels operating in Australian waters, and intercept vessels operating illegally in the Australian fishing zone (Where's the Oceanic Viking?);and
  • Establish a national network of whale and dolphin sanctuaries (Nothing done here either);
  • "Meanwhile, the Howard Government has demonstrated its lack of serious commitment to end whaling, refusing calls to monitor whalers operating in the Southern Ocean, and rejecting international legal action, including seven options put forward by the expert Sydney Legal Panel in May 2007. "Protecting whales - and preserving our $300 million-a-year whale-watching industry - requires more than the Howard government's hollow words and inaction. "Federal Labor will pursue a fresh approach to end whaling taking an international and domestic leadership role to protect these beautiful creatures". Kevin Rudd's promises and "fresh" and "bold" new approaches to end whaling sound more like the hollow and stale inaction of the Howard era - if not worse! Ignore promises, do nothing, depend on public apathy and pretend it isn't happening is more like it.

This is a response to "Dane Wood qualified?" Apologies to Mr Wood, should he ever see this. I have not met or talked with him and I am trying to promote debate on this site whilst avoiding targeting any individual - for fairness and for defamation reasons. We published the report because it made sense. It would also make (more) sense if you argued with what is in the report rather than with what your understanding is of formal qualifications. I have personally found wanting the arguments used by people with formal qualifications in the same area, but I have argued with their arguments, not with their qualifications. For instance, in this article, I comment on how Don Fletcher's recent PHD thesis seemed to contradict his later opinions in the Madura culls. In the same article I argued with Maxine Cooper's use of stats on collisions with kangaroos and inferences she drew from these. I also argued with her failure to factor-in multiple use of grasslands and obvious developer plans. And that is not the limit of the arguments I raised. No-one has yet even attempted to deal with my arguments here. I also argued about the role of immigration/emigration of kangaroos in Madura and Belconnen (which areas were not, from my reading, entirely closed) and pointed out that no-one had given any indication of having taken DNA samples to demonstrate if the populations being exterminated were really isolated. We were expected to believe guesswork and sometimes baseless opinion from 'qualified' people who had a vested interest (retaining their jobs) in a development-mad government. I also commented on the lack of definition of kangaroo overpopulation. I have corresponded with the scientist whose work is usually associated with the 1 kangaroo per ha 'rule' and he denies any such arbitrary measure. Finally, if you were to glance at the articles about auditor generals' reports for endangered species definition and preservation in Victoria, West Australia and Tasmania, you would have to conclude that these governments do not have any valid comprehensive statistics on the population movements of any indigenous animals and is therefore unqualified to say anything about kangaroo movements. If the ACT, the NT or NSW or the Australian Government have markedly superior collection, definition and reliability of relevant statistics on Oz species, I will personally eat a hat. It is therefore even harder to have confidence in the official story. Add to that my personal observation of kangaroos in Queensland and in Victoria over past few years. My experience is that the position of a researcher and their qualifications may mean very little, whereas the lack of position and lack of obvious narrow qualification in a researcher may also mean little. I have actually spent quite a lot of time talking to one kangaroo culler who is a researcher, who is published, and who is still undertaking studies. We talked on the merits of arguments, not the merits of qualifications. In the end we do not have any choice but to examine the facts that are presented and check on their reliability. The Dane Wood report was, as I recollect, put together by Dane Wood, for other people. However I now cannot find my copy, so have emailed the centre to ask for another one. I know that I was familiar with some of the material already in the report and couldn't see any problem with it. How about you tell us what there is in the report that you can show has no basis? Please don't think that we are hostile to people who have different views on these matters. As long as you can defend them you have the same rights as anyone and are very welcome to express them here. I am sorry it has taken so long to deal with your complaint. all the best, Sheila Newman, population sociologist

Just goes to show how stupid NAT Parks&Wildlife are,they havent got a clue,stick to protecting sand dunes that is their limit

In defence of whales from poaching, in light of an Australian Government roaring mouse complicit in its idleness, bring on concerted propeller wrapping of all Japanese vessels till they are immobilised. Old fishing nets with cabling would be effective, especially at night. I am not in favour of labelling any defence action as "unprovoked". Since once the Japanese rocked up to poach whales in the Southern Ocean they themselves provoked justifiable defence - all gloves off! Defence of whales and defence of Australia's territorial waters and declared whale sanctuary, justify not killing the poachers but immobilizing and disabling their 'capacity to poach'. But Sea Shepherd is tinkering. A few sunk Japanese ships would bring the issue to a head and get vacillating Chinilpa Rudd off his fence. He should show some leadership by working with NZ and Pacific Ocean nations to place a Oceania-wide moratorium on refuelling, servicing or supply of any Japanese vessel engaged in fishing, whaling research across Oceania. No fuel, no whaling! The whalers cost to run an alternative fuel ship would make their poaching adventure cost prohibitive. A similar ban should apply to Japanese seconding charter aircraft. These naval samurais would then skidaddle back to Japan with their swords between their legs. But alas Ruddism (hollow popularism) typicallly acts contrary to Australia's best interests. He will do nothing until someone dies. Gillard is an other Rudd policy castrate, inactive and waiting for her boss to come home. Tiger Quoll Snowy River 3885 Australia

Subject was "Pirates" - JS Have a look at the photos of the protestors, dressed in black, sporting pirate skull and crossbones and firing projectiles from something that looks like a rocket launcher held by one of them. Got what they deserved.

How is it that whaling authorities, or 'spies', were allowed to hire Australian planes to spy on anti-whaling protest ships! Where are our border controls, our security forces? Australia is a sovereign nation, one to be proud of and patriotic towards. However, we have leaders cowering to Japan's superior powers, and all their rhetoric about "legal options" and "diplomatic pressure" are just forms of procrastination, a smoke-screen for the public. Before being elected, Kevin Rudd promised to monitor and make "surveillance of whaling vessels operation in Australian waters" and to "intercept vessels operating illegally in the Australian fishing zone". He should be held accountable to comply with his pre-election promises. Our leaders are showing traits abhorred by the Japanese - cowardice and surrender! It is time we see some leadership from our Federal government and have Japan's illegal whaling fleet permanently removed from the Antarctic. Violence and military operations are illegal under the Antarctic Treaty, and so is interference to and killing of marine biodiversity.

The Japanese claim its a traditional right. So if they wish to continue this tradition, I say let them. So long as they only use traditional methods. Sailing ships, long boats & pointy sticks.

OK, for the third time, what are Dane Wood's qualifications to prepare a report like this? As I have read on the website they have, it says his background is in sport and recreation and he is curently undertaking studies in native wildlife conservation and rehabilitation. Does that mean he is qualified to do so? Is he biased? Any kangaroo culler could go and write a report and submit it.

It wasn't me who called it 'unprovoked'; it was the media release I published - from SeaShepherd. However the footage in one of the films shows the Japanese ship changing course to ram the smaller boat. True, sirens seemed to be ringing as the approached. Yes, these tactics are meant to draw attention to what is happening, but if they didn't, who would ever know? Please suggest what other approaches you think might be more effective. Sheila Newman, population sociologist

Unprovoked attack, are you kidding me! Read your maritime rules and see who's in the wrong then get back to me. Poor old whales, but Idiotic behavior at sea by protestors is as you know just a tool for drawing attention to the issue. Come on Sheila your losing cred with this sort of dopey justifications. Face it protestors have to find a new angle.

The Genesis command to "go forth and multiply" was given to Adam and Eve when the Earth, as we humans know it, was relatively young. If rules and commandments are literally applied today, with rigid adherence and religious ritualism, then the outcome will mean that families are burdened with more children than they can manage. Religious blindness will ultimately mean that our species will consume natural resources and eventually have to cope with mass starvation, wars, climate change and death. The human race is on a course of mass suicide - driven by a collective conscious that drives us to multiply, consume our excess now as there is little future. It required only 40 years after 1950 for the population to double from 2.5 billion to 5 billion. This doubling time is less than the average human lifetime. The world population passed 6 billion just before the end of the 20th century. Present estimates are for the population to reach 8-12 billion before the end of the 21st century. During each hour, more than 10,000 new people enter the world, a rate of ~3 per second! "Go forth and multiply" should be revised to "go forth and cherish your family and the Earth that sustains"! According to Physicist Al Bartlett, we humans have an evolutionary failure to understand exponential growth. Blind adherence to religion, without the use of intellect, is dangerous.

Ethnicity not reported in crimes

A key problem we have is the lack of clarity in reporting. Like the taboo of suicide, media don't report the ethnicity of people involved in crimes, except they manage to leak out 'Indian' when public attention is stirred by the issue - which of late is the Indian student one.

If the media did report ethnicity, would we be hearing more about ethnic tensions? Would much of the reported crimes and violence be associated with people of the same ethnic origin or between ethnic groups? This may allow the public to form a more informed view.

On the other hand, if the police statistics show no correlation between cirmes and ethnicity, then Acting PM Gillard's recent views hold, that crimes occur in big cities all around the world regardless of ethnicity and this includes Melbourne, Sydney and Brisbane.

My view is that there are more ethnicity based crimes than go reported.
This is not the fault necessarily of the ethnic groups themselves, but the dire circumstances they are in due to our federal goverment's neglect.

Lack of Assimilation Commitment is the problem

If new guests to a host country chose not to assimilate with the host community, are they really treating that host community with contempt? Not learning the local language, not adopting the local customs, not participating in the local culture and ways of life, not sending one's children to the locals schools, etc, etc etc is cause for concern as to what purpose a guest newcomer has in the host country. Citizens of any country have rights and obligations. If they chose not to become citizens, that have the same rights as foreigners, or guests is probably a better term. Once someone adopts citizenship rights and obligations as an Australian take immediate effect. But the righst to citizenship should require proof of assimilation. The test of assimilation should be based on a points system like proving identity. One hundred points will entitled a new arrival the privilege to apply for citizenship.

Language, education, financial means, work status, local community involvement, and other factors would contibute to the 100 points.
Any special transitional compensation needs to be temporary and conditional on assimilation. Rejection of assimilation should preclude citizenship.

Australian Government policy needs to review the enclave characteristics of its immigration and the impacts thsi is having on Australia.

On the other side of the coin, try imposing Australian values and customs walking around the streets of muslim Yemen, such as a young woman in a bikini drinking a beer from a stubbie and see how far you get!

The problem is one of sheer volume

Australia has many immigrants from all nationalities. Not a problem. But when 5000 Indians turn up in the country town of Griffith, when the local population is just 25,000, impacts are bound to occur. The cuse is not the newcomers themselves, but Federal Government policy that:

(1) Cuts government funding to universities like CSU in Griffith, so that to survive universities are frced to rely on revenuess from overseas students

(2) Encourages international students to come to Australia with added incentives of streamlining immigration on completionof study

(3) Targets one ethic group - i.e Indians

The Rudd Government should have enough consultants to tell it is is digging its own ethnic tension hole. And Rudd "makes no apology..."

Tiger Quoll
Snowy River 3885
Australia

This is a great review which amplifies and magnifies the significance of the backdrop to this film saga.

Subject was: "Unbelievable" - JS You wiped that post because it was true. The info I posted was taken directly from the Canberra Environment and sustainability resource centre website. Check the "staff under who we are" by Dane Wood:
Dane has experience in project management in sport and recreation and joined the Environment Centre in March 2009 to manage the Food for Life project and strengthen our work in biodiversity. He is undertaking study in native wildlife conservation and rehabilitation and is keen to pursue this interest in his project work. (added by me - JS)
Just another biased activist group with opinions that are supposed to be gospel. As far as I'm concerned your censoring my post that IS fact, because it takes away the credibility of your argument. Stop internet censorship, what a joke! You won't even post this will you? Editorial comment: The claim that Dane Wood is unqualified remains unsubstantiated, although it might be true to say that you are unaware of any evidence of his qualifications may be true. You hadn't provided us with a contact e-mail address so we weren't able to pursue this further with you. Whatever, we are firstly concerned with whether or not his case stands up and you have provided no evidence or argument to show that it does not. - JS.

Cruelty to animals deems a jail sentence; not rewarded with an appointment to public office. This is sick.

Personally, just my opinion.. but isn't it primeval to hunt and, secondary to the 'kill' get an erection; perhaps something has been lost in translation. You get a 'boner' if you eat the bones? Hrrumph! Excuse me.. raised with brothers and raised sons..and married a sailor .. and then a builder. Yep! Take the shop 'Sexy Land' to China - paint Tiger's over the underwear and.. er.. other things...

Since this item is at the top of the list, and very topical I just want to say that I think Jim has hit on something here. I have to wonder why the word Racist! is bawled out at every opportunity, when it seems clear to me that 'host communities anywhere in the world' - would feel resentment for having to 'adapt' to language, educational, business, morals, religion, interference, etc and for having their resentment manipulated into compliance in order to facilitate new arrivals. 'Guests' to one's own home don't get to 'own' the home they're arriving at, and usually - even in todays ever-decreasing standards - guests in the home have the good grace and manners to 'observe' the do's and don'ts of the host's household.

Have a look at comment No. 9 (London Times). Especially the end piece.

"Migration threatens the DNA of our nation" of 7 Jan 10 (with sub-heading: "If we are to stop the extreme Right, we must respond to real fears over the number and nature of those coming to Britain").

Jim Smith wrote:

In any host community anywhere in the world, there are a number of issues which cause resentment. Firstly - language. Language is one of the primary nation-defining factors. No nation should offer as a norm its functions being translated into the multitude of languages of immigrants. ALL education should be in the language of the host country. ALL local business should be conducted in the language of the host community. It is the duty of immigrants to speak the language of their hosts, not the reverse!

Only bona fide refugees should be able to claim benefits of ANY kind from the host nation. Only after a lengthy period of years contributing taxes, should there be an entitlement to benefits.

January 7, 2010 7:59 AM G

The ACT Commissioner for Sustainability and the Environment, Dr Maxine Cooper, since 9 September 2007 is unqualified to run an organisation that makes so-called expert claims about indigenous fauna such as kangaroos.

Cooper's academic qualifications are not in the natural environmental sciences as one would expect and assume, but in Environmental Planning, Environmental Design, and Urban and Regional Studies.

Cooper is a member of the Planning Institute of Australia and the Environment Institute of Australia and New Zealand (EIANZ). So in Cooper the ACT peak environment body is being run by a town planner!

That should enhance the bias of the body. Where is the ecological, biological and zoological expertise in Australian fauna?

Noting EIANZ's position statement on biodiversity, EIANZ recommends the adoption of the precautionary principle along with other principles of sustainable development in decisions affecting biodiversity, which sounds good, yet at the same time it also recommends research to "develop the taxonomic knowledge necessary for the...sustainable use of biodiversity".

In the Commission's most recent ACT State of the Environment 2007 report (now two years old), on the issue of conserving biodiversity it claims the threatened Grassland Earless Dragon population at Majura is due to "the recent drought and/or overgrazing by kangaroos or some other reasons". It ignores the bleedingly obvious fact that Majura is a busy Army training ground. Is this blissful ignorance or just playing politics?

The report also states "Land and infrastructure development (on the outskirts of Canberra) is a continuing threat to biodiversity". It suggests solving the problem by finding "potential avenues for the movement of species" - that is make way for development by relocating the biodiversity.

Cooper is another e-puppet placed to make government look as though it actually gives a damn about the environmental and biodiversity, while in reality achieving tuppenny squat. Putting a town planner in charge would be like NSW appointing ex-planning minister Frank Sartor as NSW Environment Minister. Would be a joke if it were not true.

Tiger Quoll
Snowy River 3885
Australia

Richard Heinberg nails it: "...the discussions in Denmark took place in a conceptual fantasy world in which climate change is the only global crisis that matters much; in which rapid economic growth is still an option; in which fossil fuels are practically limitless; in which a western middle class staring at the prospect of penury can be persuaded voluntarily to transfer a significant portion of its rapidly evaporating wealth to other nations; in which subsistence farmers in poor nations should all aspire to become middle-class urbanites; and in which the subject of human overpopulation can barely be mentioned. ... It's no wonder more wasn't achieved in Copenhagen." http://us1.campaign-archive.com/?u=311db31977054c5ef58219392&id=1853646c... Thanks to Steve Kurtz for drawing my attention to this. Emphasis, in italics, is mine. In my judgment, Derrick Jensen's "Forget Fewer Showers" was the best article written in 2009. I think Heinberg's "The Meaning of Copenhagen" will be the most important article written in 2010. Tim Murray

Editorial Comment: An unsubstantiated post claimed that a person

was unqualified. As it adds nothing of substance to this debate and as it could be defamatory, we have removed it.

The author is invited to resubmit the comment in a calm manner which does not appear derogatory and personalised. Be aware that formal qualifications may not reflect either honesty or real ability.

Hi Get Real, I feel sorry for you if you are in this industry. It's being offered as a pap for country people with little else to support themselves with. But if you are in the industry then you have to realise the official stats are nonsense or you need glasses or to go out in the field and notice how small your quarry have got. That the official stats are nonsense has recently been confirmed by a series of auditor general reports on wildlife statistics - reliability, collection - they are just not being done. The official stats are myths. I can understand why people are angry and confused. We are divided, separated and lied to. The kangaroos are the meat in the political sandwich. People do care. Russia stopped importing roo meat. The EU is considering stopping importing it. Those who don't care either have an investment in the industry, or simply believe what they are told, or they've been told that it's sooky to be nice to animals. Some of our stories about indigenous animals have the highest reader-count of any subject on candobetter.org The recent auditor generals' reports on government collection of statistics in Tasmania, West Australia and Victoria shows what a sick joke government stats are on any indigenous animal. See stories "Damning Auditor General Report on Fauna protection for Victoria" of 3 Jan 10 and "Tasmania, West Australia, Victoria - our wildlife are ignored by government" of 3 Jan 10. It's no better in the ACT, Queensland or the NT either. Sheila Newman, population sociologist

It would be a favour to everyone, especially tigers, if the Chinese started manufacturing generic Viagra, to bring the price down. Sheila Newman, population sociologist home page

Hang on, everyone. Isn't this stuff about harassment of Indian students just a beat-up? (I mean apart from government and business exploitation?) I thought that there was no evidence that the recent murder - as awful as it was - had any racial motive. Or have I missed something recent in the news? I have to say that I think most of the news reporting about the murder has a total beat-up and really inconsiderate of the deceased friends and families. I don't understand why the Indian government is behaving as if this is racist either. Sheila Newman, population sociologist

That's a good letter Tiger, and I am wondering if you actually sent it to India's Prime Minister. Perhaps you'll receive a prompt reply as I did from India's High Commissioner (see above) in Canberra .. "Dear Mr. Bright, "Thank you for your message of concern. We appreciate your sentiments of sympathy and support. "Best Wishes, "Sujatha Singh, High Commissioner, 06.01.2010" PS: We have a caste system here in Australia too, but it's kept rather quiet. It's called "Bosses and Workers."

Dear Dr. Manmohan Singh (Prime Minister of India), Before you cast dispersions upon countries like Australia hosting and facilitating your nationals, have some thought to your own country's prejudice of its own citizens. Indians in caste houses.... As you will be well aware, India maintains a record of racial discrimination against its own people under an archaic caste system. India's treatment of its labelled 'Untouchables' or 'Dalits' has been described by some authors as "India's hidden apartheid". Representing about 15 percent of India's population—or some 160 million people—the widely scatter Dalits endure near complete social isolation, humiliation, and discrimination based exclusively on their birth status. Even a Dalit's shadow is believed to pollute the upper classes. They may not cross the line dividing their part of the village from that occupied by higher castes, drink water from public wells, or visit the same temples as the higher castes. Dalit children are still often made to sit in the back of classrooms. India's perpetuation of its caste system is one of exploitation of poor low-ranking groups by more prosperous high-ranking groups. In many parts of India, land is largely held by high-ranking property owners of the dominant castes that economically exploit low-ranking landless labourers and poor artisans, all the while degrading them with ritual emphases on their so-called god-given inferior status. India should rightly condemn the perpetrators of crimes against Indians but firstly of Indian crimes against its own Indians. Tiger Quoll Snowy River 3885 Australia

Gathered by the lack of responses about culling kangaroos, you should be now aware that not many people give a bugger about the issue except for your own little closed club. Mainstream society are happy to to eat roo. The scare campaign makes you look like idiots. Truth allways shines through.

On the Wednesday 6th January 2010 the ABC will be presenting a report about the North South Pipeline on the ABC’s current affairs program The 7:30 Report. Time 7:30pm. The report will feature interviews with Plug the Pipe’s Spokeswoman Jan Beer and Victoria Water Minister Tim Holding.

From the beginning my mission was simply to put the "P" back into the IPAT equation---not to delete the "A" . Reducing our per capita consumption (and waste) is as integral to sustainability as a reduction in population. But in the absence of a steady state model, any reductions in personal consumption or waste are invitation to more growth. Move over and squeeze closer, make due with less----and free up space and resources for the flood of newcomers. Morever, exhorting people to cut back consumption is futile. As Monbiot said, you don't see many mobs rioting for austerity. A 2006 Dyskos poll in Sweden, one of the most affluent and environmentally concious nations in the world, was revealing. 60% Swedes responded that they would make NO material sacrifices to fight global warming. And I can attest that Canadians resented war-time rationing and complied with government mandated privations only under the duress of law. What forced the government's hand was a crisis. And the crisis of skyrocketing oil prices and resource shortages will be what forces per capita consumption and waste down again. The question is not, "can limiting personal consumption help save our biosphere", but "WHEN can limiting personal consumption help save our biosphere'? It can only do so when a crisis has brought the growth-economy to its knees and a new economic system is put in its place. When and if that happens, I will be the first to advocate any efficency or conservation effort that must be its constituent part. The political fault line then is, are you going to help hasten the crisis or are you going to work to postpone it? Reform or revolution----that was the issue a century ago and it is the issue again today. The sooner the collapse, the more that can be salvaged. In the meantime your green living habits are just buying time for the system to continue on its rampage. Ours is a difference of tactics, not objectives. And even then, we both put a premium on collective action and agree that individual actions are a dead end. On that scoreboard, you are ahead of me. You run for office and force growthists to face your questions. So far, my "activity" consists of writing---a self-indulgent exercise in theraputic catharsis. We don't need words, we need action. Fewer writers and more activists. Post script, re. Herve White mea culpas do not suffice for an analysis or a solution. Focusing on the greed of the affuent 20% does not absolve the poorest 80% of responsibility . I can only echo the observation of Madeline Weld, President of the Population Institute of Canada: The bottom billion of the world's population has caused as much environmental damage as the top billion----only enviromental damage of a different kind. In the blame game, there is enough to go around. Tim

Yesterday, concerned about what's happening in Melbourne, I sent this letter to the Indian High Commissioner in Canberra .. "Dear Ms Singh, "I have just heard of another attack upon an Indian student in Melbourne. Such reports sadden me. "Please do not interpret such attacks as representative of the feelings of the Australian people. Any assumption along these lines would be entirely false. "Please let it be known in your country that there are fools and criminals in every city, and that ordinary people like me have little or no control over them. "My own contacts here in Tasmania with persons of Indian origin has always been favourable. I particularly love their gentle nature, their soft voices, their friendly and helpful attitude to me, and their intelligence. I meet such people when I am ill in the Royal Hobart Hospital, and when I need to travel short distances by taxi. "I regard Indian visitors and residents as worthy people who, by their gentle nature and good example, are beneficial to Australia. I know that many Australians need lessons in gracious conduct. "Please encourage your countrymen to keep a proper and balanced perspective on events unworthy of Australia which are mindlessly inflicted by fools upon those who have done no wrong. "I am concerned that if India over-reacts to news of these events then these over-reactions will themselves cause damage to Indian-Australian relationships. "India should rightly condemn the perpetrators of crimes against Indians - but not the Australian people in general. We do not deserve this. It would be wrong of India to condemn us all. "My best wishes to you. "Peter Bright Hobart Tasmania"

The Federal government has driven the tertiary education sector to the brink in the last decade through continuous budget cuts, forcing universities and colleges to attract more and more overseas students to fill the funding gap left by the government. The government is happy to facilitate this by increasing student visa quotas year after year. To attract the overseas students, the Immigration Department promotes a pathway to citizenship, encouraging applicants to enrol in jobs that are more likely to allow them permanent residency and eventually citizenship. Hundreds of so-called colleges have emerged offering substandard education which in turn lowers the educational standard across the whole sector in Australia. On top of this, the education sector and government have promoted Australia at overseas educational expos as a "safe place" for foreign students when it's barely a safe place for its own citizens. We then have the situation of students walking through deserted suburban parks late at night, or walking around in dangerous high-crime suburbs talking on mobile phones and carrying laptops and then blaming the government when they are mugged or stabbed. I wouldn't partake in such risky behaviour and I think students should be warned that they shouldn't either. These attacks aren't racially motivated, but foreign students have been sold a lie, and the government is running scared that the golden goose might be in trouble if they can't keep selling the lie of a "safe Australia." It's fine for these students to expect to be safe in Australia, they have paid a lot of money to be here. But I pay a lot of tax, one of the highest rates in the Western world, so I want my safety guaranteed as well. It can't just be guaranteed to one group of people because the government and education sector needs their money.

This is an outstanding blog The way u write is fabulous. Thanks a lot. www.webroyalty.com Editorial comment: Nice of you to say so, Nick. Thank you. I'm not sure if webroyalty is of interest to our site's visitors, but we still appreciate compliments and, sometimes, even flattery. - JS

I don't think I can channel Kant but from the moral perspective , looking at the PM and his corporate friends boosting the population 1. Are they acting morally at all? I would say they would be giving no thought to whether or not they have failed to act in adherence to the categorical imperative. Is it more like part of the job such as a demolition job or laying bricks- without moral content to them? OR 2. Are they in a state of self deception? Jean Paul Sartre coined the term "bad faith" for this (Being and Nothingness). The PM and friends are possibly aware that they are causing problems for most of us by shooting for a "big Australia" but they have convinced themselves that "Big Australia" is such a good idea that the whole downside is disregarded. It may disturb them in their dreams but they disassociate from reality functioning in their respective roles whilst awake. OR 3. They may be completely expedient and act purely in their own short term interests knowing that the rest of society will pay for what they have done but they don't care or tell themselves that they might as well profit (from population growth) as someone else will anyway. OR 4 Are they (perhaps unconsciously) acting in accordance with the categorical imperative after all? We need to know their motives. Are they saying to themselves- "I will make money and be more prosperous when I have doubled Australia's population and so will you!" (Genuinely forgetting or being unaware of the negative environmental consequences.) In this case they have fulfilled the categorical imperative but one would have to say they are incompetent and should not be let loose to engineer Australia's future.

Nice, fresh perspective, Quark. What would Kant have to say about restraining Australia's population growth and our Prime Minister and his corporate friends forcing it on the rest of us? Sheila Newman, population sociologist

I would take Kant's categorical imperative to mean that I should act such that the moral content or intention of my actions is my universal recommendation. The rabbi may have have other intentions than to overpopulate the world and bring about an impossible numerical situation.(Even though this is the consequence of everyone following suit) Instead ,his intentions may be to follow what he thinks is right as dictated by the readings of his faith or it may be to protect future generations, through numbers. Who knows? What does he intend by siring 9 children? That is what is important from the moral point of view and Kant's categorical imperative. Even the stealing of a wallet-whether one can really recommend that others follow suit depends on the circumstances and motivation behind the wallet theft.

Love your illustration of the tic, Tigerquoll! They are very hard to remove, those parasites. In rare cases their bite can be fatal. Sometimes it just cripples. I am glad you have started to deal with that biased and unscientific wikipedia page. I recently gave a donation to Wikipedia and would be horrified if I believed that Wikipedia would not allow the Growth Lobby's flimsy propaganda to remain uncountered by the many solid cases put by me, Mark O'Connor, Kelvin Thomson etc as well as you and other contributors to this site. Sheila Newman, population sociologist

This was sent to me though the feedback form on 13 October last year. I am belatedly posting it as a comment to this article. - JS

When the job network was privatised, a friend, who had been made redundant was directed to a job provider. As a result, his placement resulted in part of his weekly wage being paid to the "Placement Provider" each week.He subsequently resigned his position and eventually found work through the newspaper. If privatisation is to legalise "gouging" I'm definitely against it.

As for electricity "not costing more" here in Queensland, my first account was almost double the previous years quarter. I was told it was a "clerical error" and would be rectified. After a very long interval, the result was a 35% increase. I switched providers, only to find a similar result. Now I'm locked in to a 2 year agreement or penalties apply should I switch again.

Our rail system is hopelessly inadequate; our 'bus system is in crisis; anyone buying these "broken down crocks" is going to slash staff, discontinue some service schedules, and raise prices. The net result will be more traffic, more grid-lock and MUCH more stress. WE CAN'T AFFORD IT!!!

I think Tim is wrong in two regards here: 1. To preclude any possibility of humankind can avoid catastrophe through collective political action; and 2. To assume that limiting personal consumption cannot contribute to saving our biosphere; Of course, like Tim, I reject the suggestion that limiting personal consumption is a substitute for stabilising population. The bizare irony of the situation in Queensland, Australia is that those, who are exhorting us to limit our personal consumption of water, power and consumption etc., are doing so in order that they can bring about circumstances that allow them to increase their own wealth through property speculation, housing development and other economic activities that would otherwise be entirely unnecessary. So, in effect, they are perversely demanding that we all limit our own consumption in order that they can increase theirs. I have written of this in the articles "Queensland's pursuit of population growth is a Ponzi scheme" of 20 Aug 09 and "How the growth lobby threatens Australia's future" of 24 Jan 09. Nevertheless, just because these unconscionable creeps are attempting to limit our consumption as a means to ultimately increase their own capacity to rape the environment, it doesn't automatically follow that limiting personal consumption is not one of a number of means that will be necessary to halt humankind's harm to the environment. Of course, the most vital component is limiting population, as Tim rightly argues, but let's not forget that a lot of horrific damage has been done in the past when the earth's population was much less and much more could still occur in future with a vastly reduced global population, particularly if that population consumes more profligately than it does now. Also, Tim's argument, if taken to its logical conclusion, would imply that the world's rich elites, through their lavish consumption are effectively doing more than the world's poor to limit population and hence save the environment. I suggest Tim read "How the Rich are destroying the Earth" by Hervé Kempf orignally published in 2007. There's no guarantee that humankind will avoid catastrophe, but if we do, it can only be through conscious democratic political choice and through breaking the stranglehold the wealthy elites have over the world's political institutions. Individual action alone, whether by increasing or decreasing our personal consumption, is a guaranteed dead end.

There are plenty of people in the world who decide to have lots of children. The argument that that is unwise in our currently overpopulated world is fine. To single out a jewish rabbi because his tribe was victimised by Hitler's holocaust in order to make a point, seems totally insensitive. Are we now going to see articles about how the Irish Catholics will cause holocausts greater than the Jacobite refugee diaspora, or how Hutterites will die of starvation on their farms? (Actually the Hutterites, having a limited circle of marriage mates to draw from, are not able to multiply as fast as huge mixed populations, which can practise serial marriage or simply multiple inseminations.) The title of the piece objectifies the rabbi into a penis, whereas it is actually his religion or his fecundity that causes the problem. Women are usually targeted as being like rabbits for having many children, so you could say that this argument redresses the gender balance of insults if you like, but, the point is, do you have to be so perjorative in the first place? Is this really necessary? Won't it reflect badly on candobetter.org? Also, to argue as a fact that his tribe would expand exponentially to fill the universe with warring peoples, is to hang your hat on such a distant nail that the whole thing simply looks contrived. In the end what stands out is "Rabbi's Penis", dwarfing all the rest or magnifying its disproportions. Editor's comment: Whilst Tim's argument may or may not be wholly valid, I think that your point about the title is valid, so I have replaced the word 'penis' in the title with 'fecundity'. - JS

Subject was "Happy New Year!" - JS

Dear Dr. Michael Dittmar!

Thank You for your article. I think you are right (about ITER). Happy New Year!
B.O.

Editor's comment: and thank you Boris Osadin for your interest in this site. I can see through the Babelfish Yahoo translation service that there is a lot about fusion that would be of interest on your own Russian language web page.

Let’s just face a few simple facts.

Skyscrapers MUST hold themselves up. They must also sway in the wind. The people who design skyscrapers MUST figure out how much steel and how much concrete they are going to put on every level before they even dig the hole for the foundation.

After EIGHT YEARS why don’t we have a table specifying the TONS of STEEL and TONS of CONCRETE that were on every level of WTCs 1&2? The NIST report does not even specify the TOTAL for the concrete. The total for the steel is in three places. So even if the planes did it that 10,000 page report is CRAP!

Conspiracies are irrelevant. The Truth Movement should be marching on all of the engineering schools in the country.

Watch that Purdue simulation. If a 150 ton airliner crashes near the top of a skyscraper at 440 mph isn’t the building going to sway? Didn’t the survivors report the building “moving like a wave”? So why do the core columns in the Purdue video remain perfectly still as the plane comes in?

That is the trouble with computer simulations. If they are good, they are very good. But if they have a defect either accidental or deliberate they can be REALLY STUPID once you figure out the flaws.

The distributions of steel and concrete are going to affect the sway of a skyscraper whether it is from the wind or an airliner.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

How much does one complete floor assembly weigh?

You know those square donut floor slabs? They were 205 ft square with a rectangular hole for the core. There was a steel rebar mesh embedded in the concrete which was poured onto corrugated steel pans which were supported by 35 and 60 foot trusses. There has been talk about those things pancaking on each other for years.

But has anyone ever said what the whole thing weighed? Why haven't we seen that A LOT in EIGHT YEARS? The concrete alone is easy to compute, about 601 tons. But the concrete could not be separated from the entire assembly, the upper knuckles of the trusses were embedded into the concrete. So what did the whole thing weigh and why haven't the EXPERTS been mentioning that A LOT in EIGHT YEARS?

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So why hasn't Richard Gage and his buddies produced a table with the TONS of STEEL and TONS of CONCRETE that were on every level of the WTC? How much computing power do they have now, compared to the early 1960s when the buildings were designed? I asked Gage about that in May of 2008 at Chicago Circle Campus and he got a surprised look on his face and gave me this LAME excuse about the NIST not releasing accurate blueprints. Gravity hasn't changed since the 1960s. They should be able to come up with some reasonable numbers.

Ministerial Accountability

When an external auditor makes a damning audit report on a company, that company had better act post haste to rectify the problem or else both the company and its directors risk serious legal repercussions.

Australians similarly are entitled to the same post haste rectification by Government departments and ministers when an auditor general makes a damning report on a government department’s abrogation of governance.

Australian legislation is wanting in requiring mandating auditory compliance by government departments with auditor general reports. Appropriate drafting of legislation at Federal level are a priority for 2010.

So the Victorian Auditor General’s Report on Fauna Potection for Victoria concludes that
the Victorian Flora and Fauna Guarantee Act 1988 has been largely ignored. The Minister for Environment and Climate Change, Gavin Jennings should be put on notice and if found negligent in executing the objectives and rules of the Act, then sacked.
The executive head of the Department of Sustainability Victoria (DSE) charged with administering and executing the Victorian Flora and Fauna Guarantee Act 1988 should also be sacked.

This confirms the long known chronic neglectful failing of the Victorian Government’s custodial responsibility for fauna protection in Victoria. The oft bandied, ’no data no problem’ excuse, is the second kneejerk response to challenges of accountability after the 'lack of resources' excuse, which is a blatant mischievous falsehood.

The Victorian Government is in breach of the Intergovernmental Agreement on the Environment (IGAE), the National Strategy for Ecologically Sustainable Development, and the National Strategy for the Conservation of Australia’s Biological Diversity.

These delinquent authorities need to be legally held accountable for exercising the objectives and clauses of every law under their responsibility.

Victorian Government Biodiversity Obligations

In 2002, the Victorian Natural Resources & Environment department was split into the (1) Department of Primary Industries and (2) Department of Sustainability and Environment. If the Victorian Government did not openly reject the pre-existing obligations to comply with the Intergovernmental Agreement on the Environment (IGAE), the National Strategy for Ecologically Sustainable Development, and the National Strategy for the Conservation of Australia’s Biological Diversity, then these obligations remain in force.

The Victorian Natural Resources & Environment (NRE) established guiding principles consistent with the National Strategy for the Conservation of Australia’s Biological Diversity under three main categories:

(1) Ecological principles

(2) Risk Management principles

(3) Development principles

Ecological Principles:

”Biodiversity is best conserved in situ (within species’ natural habitat).
Central to the conservation of biodiversity is the need for a ‘comprehensive, adequate and representative’ system of ecologically viable protected areas, integrated with the sympathetic management of other areas, including urban, agricultural and industrial areas.

Conservation is enhanced by knowledge and understanding of species, populations and ecosystems. We need to continue to develop our knowledge and understanding of Victoria’s biological diversity. We share the earth with many other life forms that have intrinsic value and warrant our respect, whether or not they are of immediate benefit to us.

Applying ecological principles to ecological systems
Plants and animals depend on each other for survival. They are effectively connected to each other through a web of interactions which, at the larger level, form a series of ecosystems and help shape the landscape. Individual species are easiest to conserve when they are maintained within their natural habitats and landscapes. Therefore, to conserve biodiversity, we must consider landscapes and their management as a whole.

Size
Human activity in Victoria has fragmented many of our natural ecosystems and landscapes. Any area of native vegetation, whether mallee scrub, coastal heathland or mountain forest, is more susceptible to damage if it is small and isolated from other natural areas. In the long term, large, consolidated areas of native vegetation are more viable than smaller, more fragmented areas. Large, intact areas of some ecosystems, such as Victoria’s grasslands and grassy woodlands, no longer exist. In future, some of these areas may be restored or re-aggregated in pastoral areas as part of drought preparedness arrangements.

Links and corridors
Fragmented ecosystems support less species and genetic diversity. Links between fragments can allow otherwise isolated populations of flora and fauna to remain connected to populations elsewhere.

Links therefore maintain larger gene pools, contributing to evolutionary development and long-term viability.

For some animals, the ability to move between different parts of their habitat is a critical requirement of their life cycle. In urban and rural areas, corridors of native vegetation along rivers and roads are literally lifelines for these animals.

On the other hand, roads and clearings through forests provide convenient corridors for the movement of introduced predatory animals like foxes and invasive pathways for weeds.

Many fish rely on free movement up and down rivers.

For them, structures such as weirs can become impregnable obstacles. At larger scales, the extensive coastal and inland freshwater wetlands linked by waterways enable waterbirds to survive droughts.

Boundaries
The boundaries between ecosystems are where change is most active. There the ebb and flow of seasons and environmental cycles have the most influence. Rapid, sometimes irreversible, change occurs especially at the boundary between natural ecosystems and altered ones. These so-called ‘edge effects’ include progressive invasion by pest plants and animals, changes to soil conditions and water flows, increased exposure to wind and sun, and changes to fire patterns.

Risk management principles
Taking into account these ecological considerations, the following risk management principles can be identified from the IGAE and the National Strategies:

The causes of a significant reduction or loss of biological diversity must be anticipated, attacked at the source, or prevented.
Prevention is better than cure. Protecting ecosystems from damage is far more cost-effective than attempting rehabilitation once the damage is done. Besides, some ecosystem changes and losses of biodiversity (for example, extinctions) can never be rectified.

The ‘precautionary principle’ (Principle 15 of the Rio Declaration on Environment and Development, to which Australia has agreed) provides a general guide to dealing with the uncertainty and risk involved in conserving biodiversity, in two main ways:

When contemplating decisions that will affect the environment, the precautionary principle involves careful evaluation of management options ‘to avoid, wherever practicable, serious or irreversible damage to the environment, and an assessment of the risk-weighted consequences of various options.’

When dealing with ‘threats of serious or irreversible environmental damage, lack of full scientific certainty should not be used as a reason for postponing measures to prevent environmental degradation’.”

Tiger Quoll
Snowy River 3885
Australia

600,000 more immigrants in the last 4 years. That's more than Tasmania. More than Newcastle. More than the Aborigines. Any idea who wrote this note I found in my mailbox recently. It's not even "signed" by any organisation or individual... (sigh)

This comment seems to accept that those pushing immigration believe their own propaganda and their own lying statistics. I don't think so. I think by now, over thirty six years since the economic neo-liberal counter-revolution, of which Naomi Klein writes in "The Shock Doctrine", started in Chile, they are perfectly well aware that all their dodgy indicators that 'prove' that population growth, and other economic neo-liberal policies, help the economy, are just there to fool the broader public. They understands that it helps them and nobody else and certainly not our society, as a whole, to get richer. And we can rest asured that there would not be the slightest fragment of noble altruism, whether twisted or otherwise which motivates Kevin Rudd and those whose selfish interests he serves.

Vivienne highlights the Australian government's post-war immigration policy of the 50's encouraged by Arthur Caldwell, but that was a small start and long ago. A closer analysis between the alignment of successive governments and immigration statistics would reveal a more recent policy trend that makes Caldwell's immigration enthusiasm pale in comparison to today's 383,000 per annum.

The 'populate or perish' myth was spun and believed but never legitimated - and quite comparable to Bush/Howard/Blair Weapons of Mass Deception spin [BHB WMD]. Like WMD, the preceding 'populate or perish' myth remains an historian's gem of a book waiting to have the deception exposed. It just opened the immigration flood gates on a lie that has been ignored and abandoned.

It's bleeding obvious that Australian standards and way of life are being eroded due to a few powerful politicians that in some twisted noble way think it's good for us to be globally accepting. No need to elaborate on the 'high home-ownership', 'close-knit families' etc, but thanks for the confirmation.

Immigration only boosts short term economic data. The key problem is that Australia Treasury departments are dominated and controlled by economists and politicians know no better. These days Treasury is blindly accepted as the unquestioned head economic Druid. Politicians are intimidated by economic science to thinking that they have no social/economic savvy with which to challenge Treasury's mandate. The power and influence is prevalent at both national and state level.

Rudd’s rationale and drive are undisclosed. One man is taking Australian values and lifestyle down a degraded path. The test ought to be that the current generation leaves a better Australia for the next. Rudd makes no apology that his personal concept “of a bigger Australia” is a different goal. I argue it is a goal foreign to Australia and that Rudd needs to be treated as an illegitimate invading foreigner.

When Rudd is long gone his destruction will prevail permanently, especially at 383,000 net immigration per year!

Tiger Quoll
Snowy River 3885
Australia

I think that the term 'lobby group' tends to be reserved for professional groups that are paid to represent commercial interests, therefore there are practically no 'environmental' lobby groups. The unpaid groups are what the governments tend to call, 'Community groups' and they have a similar attitude to them as did Louis XV. And, if you give them serious information in your submissions, they are inclined to use it against you or you will find it in a slightly altered form in a commercial lobby group's 'consultation' documents - paid for by taxpayers. Also, the government only seriously considers advice from commercial groups, which it calls 'stakeholders', and will leave groups and people who may well have started an enquiry and are better qualified than any of the commercial newcomers, out of the final consultations at all. This is another indication of our governments' obsession with money and power to the absolute sidelining of democracy and science. Oh, and I have encountered a number of people who have actually hired barristers to represent environmental cases in state tribunals, only to have the same barristers present the information they obtained from their environmental client in another case, working for developers. Well, that is how lawyers earn their money, but a better system would be one where each case were heard on its merits, where laws gave nature rights and observed democracy. As Pink Crimson song goes, "The fate of all mankind is in the hands of fools."

That's how I also see it re environmental lobby groups. They do the work of government but unpaid. The government should exert control and moderate the desires of private interests to impoverish or ruin parts of our country - our natural heritage for profit. Governments pretend that they have done what is necessary by asking for submissions re proposed projects. A whole lot of people ( to my knowledge, usually opposed) spend hours of their time in serious research and consideration to have input to the government decision- usually to be totally ignored. Never mind- the government consulted !

As immigration minister between 1945 and 1949, Arthur Calwell implemented and popularised the Chifley Labor government’s “populate or perish” policy, persuading the union movement that mass migration was necessary despite the impacts of the depression. In 1950, Australia's population was just over 8 million. By 1970 it was 12.5 million. It was still a modest 14.7 million in 1980. A million more migrants arrived in each of the following four decades after 1950. Despite the lowly status of women and our cultural cringe, we were a nation of high home-ownership,close-knit families, low crime rates, water sprinklers, large backyards, low unemployment, social cohesion and free education. Immigration boosted our prosperity and rewarded us with lifestyles to be envied, and massive opportunities for prosperity. Australia used to be known as a country of home-owners. Not any more! The ability of local young people and families to buy a house has been destroyed by the pro-growth lobby who are benefiting by forcing housing and rental costs to rise. We have already globalised our tertiary education system and thus created an easy access to immigration, and now our property market is up for grabs internationally - our existing population has been betrayed! High-density living, a "solution" to population growth, is not appropriate for families with children. The other "solution" is to keep building houses, but this means urban sprawl, infrastructure and transport demands, soaring costs, more land clearing and biodiversity losses. Now our immigration rate is the highest in 40 years and our population growth rate is 2.1%. We are being "softened" to accept a 35 million by 2050, but our numbers will double in less than 35 years if we continue our present rate. We are thus denying the next generation the benefits our parents and grandparents enjoyed! Why? Because of the greed of land developers, the building and finance industries that have State and Federal governments in their pockets! Our lifestyles are being eroded, and Australia is becoming over-populated for the benefit of a few with strings controlling politicians when they are supposed to be acting in the interests of the voters, not a select few! Any climate change warnings are being dismissed, and is a total charade if our population is being increased. We need some activism against the power of the pro-growth lobby. Now our population growth, driven by mass immigration, has become "populate and perish" !

Australia claims it has 'Responsible Government' whereby our current political system has an executive government, the Cabinet and Ministry, is drawn from, and accountable to, the legislative branch - the House of Representatives. But few Ministers hold the academic qualifications or experience to hold their portfolios. Worse is that even when they take up the portfolio, the system does not require a crash course diploma to be undertaken to get up to speed. It's 'she'll be right', on the job training and bubble along and trust your department (s). Environment is not even treated as a senior portfolio like Health or Industrial Relations of Foreign Affairs. The Lib-Lab (Liberal/Labor Parties) treatment of the Environment portfolio in recent decades is to rename it and bundle it in with other disparate portfolios like Arts for instance. Australia's system of government prides itself on centuries old Westminster system inherited unquestioned from Britain. While we have a separation of powers between the Executive (the Ministry), the Legislature (the Parliament) and the Judiciary (the Courts), we also have a separation between the qualifications of the Executive and their portfolios - competent departments led by incompetent Ministers. Arguably Peter Garrett took on the Environment Portfolio with more experience than the respective Minister's at State level in Victoria, NSW, Queensland, Tasmania, South Australia, and Western Australia. But our Kevin has castrated his potential and effectiveness since day one. I look forward to Pete's book when he ultimately resigns and sits down to tell us all the truth and his frustration. Even Pete's portfolio is a miscellaneous bucket - Minister for the Environment, Heritage and the Arts', which flies in the face of Big Kev's hyperbole about Climate Change. Wong is a lawyer so given the Climate Change portfolio because of her ducking and weaving around the facts? Law is all about winning, not justice. Look at Victoria: Gavin Jennings MP is the Minister for the Environment, Climate Change and Innovation. Look at NSW: Frank Sartor MP (previous planning minister with a record for undoing much of the environmental protection legislation in the state is Minister for Climate Change and the Environment, but also Minister Assisting the Minister for Health (Cancer). Environment is listed as 8th in the seniority of portfolios. Look at Queensland: Queensland doesn't even include the word 'Environment in the Minister's title: Kate Jones MP is Minister for Climate Change and Sustainability, which is bundled with Natural Resource and Water. Look at Tasmania: Michelle O'Byrne MP is Minister for Environment, Parks and Heritage, Minister for Sport and Recreation, Minister for Tourism Arts. Says a lot about the disingenuous regards the Lib-Labs have for our Environment. Tiger Quoll Snowy River 3885 Australia

For those of you not familiar with the Mikado, in the speech immediately before the song, Ko-Ko relates the following about finding offenders to behead: If I should ever be called upon to act professionally, I am happy to think that there will be no difficulty in finding plenty of people whose loss will be a distinct gain to society at large. Lyrics from Gilbert and Sullivan: The Mikado "And that Nisi Prius nuisance, who just now is rather rife, The Judicial humorist — I've got him on the list! All funny fellows, comic men, and clowns of private life — They'd none of 'em be missed — they'd none of 'em be missed. And apologetic statesmen of a compromising kind, Such as — What d'ye call him — Thing'em-bob, and likewise — Never-mind, And 'St— 'st— 'st— and What's-his-name, and also You-know-who — The task of filling up the blanks I'd rather leave to you. But it really doesn't matter whom you put upon the list, For they'd none of 'em be missed — they'd none of 'em be missed!" Chorus. "You may put 'em on the list — you may put 'em on the list; And they'll none of 'em be missed — they'll none of 'em be missed!" Our politicians of today are utterly unremarkable, compromised, colourless and certainly won't be missed! Their loss will be a distinct gain to society at large!

Illegals (and they are illegals, because they are island-hopping queue jumpers who travel through highly compatible non-threatening countries, seeking economic "refuge") are arriving almost every day. The green light has been switched on, by this person Rudd. While sick Australian citizens can't get adequate health care, mostly paid for by their own taxation, illegals are first in line. They burn their boats and do things that require swift air-lifting to our hospitals, where they are given priority. How is that for national Rudd-ism? How does this look to our elderly and our wait-listed suffering? It could be true that some are importing up to 10 kids into our country. Then what? Family benefits, housing assistance (while we have our own homeless), medicare benefits, BABY BONUS. A queue-jumping family with say 4 kids is known to quickly morph into a family of 6-8 kids within two years of arrival, and with baby bonus encouragement, to boot. How's that for a big Rudd reward? This is a shameful indictment on this Ruling Gang - - Rudd, Tanner, Swan & Co. who are acting with impunity (just for now). I saw an old P-plated bomb precariously driven around Melbourne - during working hours - sporting four fit-looking males in the front and a similar four in the back. Across the rear window, in thick white paint: "SPONSORED BY KEVIN RUDD". What the hell is going on? What's these attitudes? And no-one can tell me that Rudd & Company are unaware of public concerns about population and the stresses of immigration. Blind Freddie can hear publicly expressed concerns, even the dogs are barking it. Yet he continues to advocate a BIG Australia - for whose benefit? The levels of his arrogance and defiance are only rivalled by Malcolm Fraser. Are we to lose our sovereign rights, our culture and our belief systems, just to ensure exponentially increasing "gratitude votes" for a pro-population growth government, for their own highly questionable motives? Is this new Australian policy? Foreigners who apply blackmail will be rewarded by residency, and taxpayer funded benefits are the ultimate prize? It's making me sick. But the way things are going, there'll likely be no room at the health care inn for me, or mine.

John Brumby and Tim Holding (acting Minister for Environment and Climate Change) have made it clear they don’t care about the impact of their policies or what other solutions are available. The prime need is to get re-elected. A desalination plant at Wonthaggi and a pipeline from a drought area are probably the worst technological solutions they could have chosen for Melbourne's water supply. Opponents say desalination plants produce carbon emissions and endanger the local wildlife, including whales. The government plans to build a 70 kilometre pipe from the Goulburn Valley to Melbourne to transfer 75 gigalitres of water a year to the capital. Threats to wildlife due to the pipeling include the Murray Cod, the Macquarie Perch, the Striped Legless Lizard and some of our grassland ecosystems. The lack of planning for protection of our waterways, massive loss of habitat for wildlife due to logging and land clearing, urban sprawl, freeway construction and continual damage to the State of Victoria shows that wildlife have little importance in the agenda of our Brumby government. Tim Holding's experience is with the Police portfolio after the Manufacturing and Export and Financial Services Industry. Shortly after completing year 12 at Haileybury College, he signed up to the Army Reserve where he spent two years serving in the 1st Commando Regiment. In 1992, aged 19, he was elected to Waverley Council and has graduated with a Law Degree. He has no experience or qualifications regarding wildlife, and his experience in public show he has a complete disregard for biodiversity and environmental issues.

The Admin dissertation 23/2/08 seems to me to be unsatisfying relative to BASIC drivers of these historic events . In my view it all starts at Genisis 1 . Day 5.... Adam Built (prototype 1) Day 6.... Eve Built (prototype 2) .... Prototypes (both) put in charge of it all and told to multiply themselves and dominate the whole enterprise . They are without training or experience . Day 7.... The constructor says he's taking the day off , and instead buggers off for 4000 years or so , (so Bishop Usher said) . THEN he "organises ??" for his little boy to sort it all out .... a BABY ??? By the time this poor little extra-marital even arrives it's all well out of hand .... but thirty years on he's got Buckley's .... he does his best .... it wasn't enough . The old patterns of human endeavour then continue much as established by Proto's 1 and 2 with an emphasis on the dominating bit . The beginnings of Civilization ??? Eve "No 10000" looks at these seeds she's got from under the bushes and thinks "I can put these in the ground near the cave and save the walking when I'm 'heavy with child' , and Adam "No 10000" , ( he's clever with his hands), can put put a bit of a fence around it to keep the goats away from it ". It wasn't the beginnings of civil technology of course, (she already had her digging stick and he had his spear ) , but it was a giant leap forward which paved the way for a much larger family in the valley....HOWEVER .... it WAS technologically dependent in an absolute way . (And it remains so for all subsequent populations). Because over-population then became endemic on farms and valleys , all but "eldest sons" were obliged to leave , (lest the Cain/Abel solution be resorted to) . And they wandered about until they realised that Valley1 had stuff that Valley2 didn't have .... you guessed ?!! And so they became able to build stables and docks a bit up-river .... and flash houses , and won all the prettyest first daughters , (and got themselves stood over by violent even-younger brothers ) . Probably about 10% of any population is , naturally , anywhere near technologically savvy .... in their heads AND hands .... in large cities these crucial skills and roles are 90% just not understood ; this is an essential precursor to 90% despising or fearing both the skills and the roles . In smaller near-farm communities they are accepted , at arms length , and as secondary to weather predicting skills . (Without US you would starve). And thus is the stage set for decline and collapse .... Gibbon didn't even begin to comprehend . The pressure on farms and food is not removed just by ejecting unnecessary offspring ; that action also overtaxes other vital resources ; everything is used UP , rather than just used . Some early "cultures" resolved the problem at its source in ways considered quite unholy by other groups who in their turn were prepared to slaughter whole city populations .... (excepting the cattle and the females who had not "been gone in unto") . They tallied it all too ! (Moses , Joshua) , and the mindset continues to this day . Copenhagen , not unexpectedly , was never going to be a success . And don't forget all those wifeless Chinamen , nor Ghengis Khan !

Thank you Sheila, What an excellent theme on which to conclude the first decade of the 21st Century. In light of the mass dilution of environmental legislation over the past 20 years, it is time we think of drafting a Mother Nature Bill that places equal legal status on nature to that of humanity - a bill of rights if you like. We are about to enter 2010, which the UN has labelled the Year of Biodiversity. Exposing the anthropocentric utilitarian perspective of the benefits of biodiversity should be a first step. We need to question this premise. The English speaking world should start looking outside its language to what leadership thinking the non-English world is adopting. Congratulations on your thinking outside the English Square...so often I note. Oceania (Australia, New Zealand and our SE Pacific region) could well learn from the South Americas including Ecuador in terms of the article topics you present - reflecting the beliefs and traditions of the indigenous peoples of Ecuador as a basis for shaping legal framework that respects the existence rights of nature. Such watershed thinking indeed is an excellent premise on which to start 2010. I fear that on the other end of the human spectrum, backward Chinese customs will escalate tiger extinctions as the Chinese Year of the Tiger threatens to reinvigorate backward superstitions that involve slaughtering tigers for their body parts. Two priority focuses for the New Year. May CanDoBetter get the airtime it deserves. Tiger Quoll Snowy River 3885 Australia

Rudd is doing what he wants, just like Howard did, just like Keating did, and like those did who came before. Rudd’s superiority complex makes him a control freak, which exacerbates his power. His tight knit foursome – Rudd, Swan, Gillard and Tanner have become "a leak-proof high synod" [Annabel Crabb's article 'A shape-shifter in the Lodge', 14 November 2009], which controls the Federal Cabinet.

The focus is on the leader with these issues, basically because leader has so much power and influence as to be able to pursue personal ambitions and fetishes. We voted for Rudd in November 2007. With all his promises and committees, he had the usual first six month honeymoon period, before the power went to his head and then voter disenfranchisement kicked in. With Labor in power at Federal and State level and the major opposition party in disarray, Rudd’s arrogant power has gone to his head.

In Australia, like most democracies, voters only get a chance at pragmatic democracy once every four years, or in the case of local government, once every five years. The rest of the time voters are disenfranchised and rightly frustrated with the disconnect between government and the people.

Participatory democracy is a misnomer. What we have in reality is Concentrated Occasional Democracy (COD) and it smells like rancid fish. Power is concentrated in one person. Power is also concentrated in a two party system, which precludes minor parties having a say, developing an effective opposition and which also denies new parties starting up to become an effective voice. The opportunity and prevalence of corruption and political influence from party donations perpetuates this concentration of power. We really have a political system that is akin to a neo-aristocracy.

So in response to Peter Bright‘s reply comment ‘Rudd bending’ yesterday, Rudd is doing what Rudd wants, just like Obama is doing what Obama wants. Aspects of each policy and execution may have merits of right or wrong, but the more important issue is that these leaders are acting undemocratically. No, neither of them is a puppet. They have a personal ideology and they are translating that ideology with public billions. Serious debate is only occurring in the media and given the media is also concentrated; the debate is shallow and dares not explore the root causes.
Our parliamentary system only allows these leaders to be removed after four years. I would liken their tenure to a superhighway, not a tightrope.

Tiger Quoll
Snowy River 3885
Australia

I held out hope that both would bring about worthwhile changes, but those hopes have been unrealised.

In Kevin Rudd's case, I find it hard to believe that he is "otherwise thoroughly decent". He has gone out of his way to inflict maximum harm on this society, the most glaring example being Australia's current record high rate of immigration.

In Barack Obama's case, it might be worth reading Russ Baker's new book "Family of Secrets: The Bush Dynasty, the Powerful Forces That Put It in the White House, and What Their Influence Means for America" proposes the same hypothesis for a number of other Presidents including President Obama. (For some more information, see "Week In Review: John Perkins & Russ Baker on Secret Empires" for brief article and see related video of interview on GRIT tv.) Russ Baker's hypothesis is that Obama is doing what the military-industrial complex, of which President Eisenhower warned, expects him to do and not what he would actually prefer to do.

All the same, I think we are still entitled to judge what Obama does at face value and at face value it is appalling.

The Japanese have defied French law, too. From www.seashepherd.org/news-and-media/news-091218-1.html there's this: "The Sea Shepherd ship Steve Irwin had been given permission to enter the Territorial waters of France. The Japanese harpoon vessel tailing the Steve Irwin neither requested nor was granted permission to enter the French waters. They did so regardless and in complete contempt of French sovereignty." The Sea Shepherd website is here: www.seashepherd.org Peter Bright Hobart

Do you think Kevin's apparent aquiescence to wrongdoing compares with Obama's doing the same? It seems to me that these two men (otherwise thoroughly decent) have allowed themselves to become emasculated puppets in the interest of their own survival. Is this a form of "me first-ism" or do they genuinely feel that they can still achieve some good for their people by staying where they are and making the best of it. As I perceive it, these leaders KNOW that unless they aquiesce to wrongdoing they will, one way or another, by fair means or foul, be removed. I think it's a tightrope they walk.

Kenneth Boulding(1910 to 1993) was a US economist, peace activist, Quaker, poet, philosopher and scientist. He is quoted as saying that anyone who believes that exponential growth can go on forever in a finite world is either a "madman or an economist." Many economists seems to lack any understanding of biological systems, or that overpopulation creates misery. The "moderately cheerful form" of his Dismal theorems is that if something other than misery and starvation can be found to keep a prosperous population in check, the population does not have to grow until it is miserable and starves. It can be stable and prosperous! Left in the hands of economists, our growth, driven by taxes, will be limitless! The health and well-being of a nation cannot be judged entirely on economic growth. We will be assigned into feedlots like cattle, all as economic units programmed to add to our GDP! The "something" to stop the madness of overpopulation should be found soon to keep us safe from mad economists!

Kagakuteki Giman means 'scientific deceit' in Japanese and this is the language our Rudd needs to start using against the Japanese government's con on commercial whaling in our territorial waters. What if Australia endorsed North Korea's ongoing missile testing in Japanese territorial waters? Rudd has publicly acknowledged the illegitimacy of the Japanese actions. Why doesn't Rudd order the Australian Navy's scientific monitoring of Japanese whaling in our waters? Rudd's blind eye to Japanese breaching Australian territorial sovereignty in Australian Antarctic Waters and ignoring Australian Whale Sanctuary, is a mild form of Ruddism (hollow popularism) characterised by problem avoidance and hollow diplomatic speak - like his hollow apologies to the stolen generations and the forgotten generations minus any thought of compensation. But Ruddism at its most extreme is treacherous betrayal of Australian values to the benefit of foreign interests - like Rudd's record immigration policy and his approving the selling off of Australia's mineral wealth to China (Rio Tinto, Nufarm, MidWest Corp, Felix Resources, Oz Minerals, etc.). Tiger Quoll Snowy River 3885 Australia

Local indigeeous rights and even birth rights seem to have been overruled by contemporary economic dogma that migration is the fastest performance enhancer of economic growth, which makes any national governments economic performance look better. It is long overdue that economics is exposed as the narrow misguided theories that it is, which ignores the broader more complex realm of sociology. It is long overdue that sociologists be treated as second class citizens to economists. Migration is an economic sugar high, stimulant, steroid or growth hormone, which is quickly followed by adverse social consequences - local job displacement, increased cost of living, shortage of resources, shortage of public services, ghettos, racial and ethnic tension and conflicts, etc, etc. The rationale of banning drugs in sport is a useful analogy applicable to the effects of migration in societies. But can we blame migrants seeking a better life. There are millions of would-be migrants just waiting to exercise their pathogenic rights to breed. Invasion rights take many forms. Tiger Quoll Snowy River 3885 Australia

The debate (?) above is a fascinating exercise in highly focussed word-smithery (as I see from the perspectives of 75 years of concern about population densities .... and from its derivatives , killing of as many Germans and Japanese as necessary to save my sister's children from being half-breed Japanese bastards ; they of course had obverse views). There are significant failures to understanding of the realities of "technology" displayed .... whilst it is true that civilizations always have seen technological development , it is rarely observed by those dependent upon it that , from the very beginning technology has ENABLED civilization to exist at a level determined absolutely by the technology available at that time , and actually used. However , to believe that the technologies of mass transport can be developed to a level necessary to outrun unrestrained animal fecundity by exporting people to far-away planets or galaxies is to be technologically illiterate at a very basic level .... a light- year is a very long way , and a people needs a lot of support along the way . Relative to population "control" (or even restraint) , it must be bourne in mind that exactly half of any population is below average intelligence relative to any particular subject one cares to choose . It follows of course that birth control , pre-conception , is doomed to failure . That is being clearly demonstrated , right now , at about 256.8 Hz. If , immediately , Testosterone Progesterone etc. , can be removed from existing animal structures there is some hope left .... it may be profitable to very quickly research the Panda's solution to procreational protocols . The most likely out come is , I think , a rapid escalation of competition for increasingly scarce resourses of all basic kinds .... land , water , metals , clean air , etc . ...... Oh, and I forgot , WOMEN , (there is a potential standing army of some millions of wifeless Chinamen developed by bureaucrats there with the very best of intentions ( it seems )) . It may well be that , in future folk-law , Ghengis Khan will be seen as almost gentlemanly . The discussion at present seems to be unwisely focussed on the numbers of people tolerable , rather than the kinds of armaments needed Reductio Ad Absurdum enables the following logical conclusions... No people, no problem ..... No standing room , we--ell , no problem .

The view expressed on the die-off site that humans will always overshoot the carrying capacity of their environment is at the other extreme of the notion not mentioned above but which one sees expressed that humans are themselves a "resource" and you can't have too many of them ! It's interesting to get a glimpse in this article of a social system with respect to land that was successful in maintaining societies without overshoot over millennia The observation that Easter Island was an exception in it's overshoot and collapse of the environment and the society should arouse curiosity and of course brings to mind the case of the Australian Aborigine as mentioned. I have never heard of the overshoot and collapse of any Aboriginal societies in Australia in the 40,000 to 60,000 years before the European invasion . Is there any evidence that this in fact happened anywhere on the continent? It's also interesting that that the Australian Aborigines had the same land tenure and inheritance system to those on other Pacific Islands. Is there something intuitive about setting this up or were the systems brought from one island to another through migration?

The lesser of the two "evils" apparently is to do nothing? Australia has already claimed sovereignty over our Australian Antarctic Territory and it is clear on our maps. Kevin Rudd's lesser of two "evils" clearly is to surrender the welfare of "protected" whales, surrender our authority over the AAT, our Australian Whale Sanctuary nearby, and risk the safety of volunteers doing the job our ADF or Oceanic Viking should be doing! Japan is laughing at us, our spineless leaders, policies and laws and "diplomatic" pleas. Imperial Japanese attitudes still reign in peaceful Japan today.

Religion is Man's bumbling response to God! It has often lead to abuse and the very outcomes that are condemned by Him. Human understanding and manipulation of the Creator means He has been politicized, commercialized and exploited beyond recognition. Religion is responsible for masking the very evil and desires of humans for their own selfish ends. The Crusades, colonialism and the Inquisition are some examples. Nature is an expression of Creation, flawed through Sin and Evil brought on by the human race through disobedience to God, by choice. Genesis contains the Creation myth to illustrate our Fall from grace and God's original purpose. Sin is traditionally minimized by the churches, or trivialised, but it impacts on the whole planet, and on every species. In the Garden of Eden no animals were eaten, nor did the animals kill each other. Man and animals ate plants. The Bible tells us that animals will once again live together peacefully when Christ returns. Death entered after the Creation was finished. And when God was finished he said his Creation was "very good" (Genesis 1:31). If Lions were ripping apart zebras, and animals were brutally killing each other at this time, then surely God would not have declared his Creation "very good". The flaw came due to Adam and Eve - ie humans! The slavery of animals, human to human cruelty and aggression, and the suffering and eating of meat and the cruelty of the food chain are the embodiment of Sin. Death, suffering and killing are the result. Unable to recognize or appreciate or differentiate between the Creator and that which He created, Nature, results in what many wind up doing - worshipping the material or natural universe because it is what they can see and experience with their senses. Atheism is the clay pot questioning the divine Potter to "prove" himself! Through this Curse of Sin and Death comes a Blessing. The opportunity to be united with a God who loves us. There is reconciliation with God for those who trust in His son Jesus - God embodied in human form. Don't trust religions - but the source of goodness is God. Still there is much that our mortal and carnal minds can't understand this side of life, until we meet our Maker.

God knows nothing of religion. Nothing. Reality is of God. Religion is of man. Man is the greatest cock-up artist of all time.

Trust in the rights and rules of Nature have a stronger moral base than beliefs in man-made religions. The nature-based beliefs of traditional peoples are premised on healthy respect for nature and all living things. Many ancient belief systems which evolved over eons sought a greater understanding of the natural world and humanity’s place in it. It sought harmony and spiritual calm. Since humanity started dominating the natural world and extended understanding to control, humanity has lost a real and spiritual connection with the natural world. Humanity’s world has become that designed and controlled by humanity which is artificial and unnatural – that is religion. This has lead to artificial and unnatural thinking and acts. In my view humanity in a human controlled and guided world separated from Nature is spiritually lost.

Religions which disrespect the rights of others to have differing views and faiths are themselves disrespectful, self-centred, greedy and immoral. Christianity has unjustly and selfishly displaced traditional faiths of local peoples. In so doing it has become a form of colonisation. It has caused wars. It has not apologised nor offered to redeem lands and lives taken. Christianity has possibly caused more harm than any other faith and so is an immoral, selfish and prejudiced faith. Christianity has been an excuse to usurp power and influence by one group of people over another, typically by force and killing.

Human religions are just different manifestations of a group of like minded people with a common cause seeking to imposed themselves and will and orthodoxy upon others. It presupposes that the dominating or invading faith has more rights and legitimacy than the invaded faith. But how is conquest by force ever a moral act?

The dogma of Anglicans or Catholics or Jews or Hindus or Buddhists or Muslims may argue in their own head that they each are respectively superior that the other, much like sports teams. The Hindu caste system is prejudiced on ethnicity. To extend such thinking to imposing will over others is invasive, unjust and immoral. It is a spiritual form of greed, superiority and control over others.

Practitioners of religion are continually being found to be morally corrupt - Catholic priests in Australia and Ireland seem to be the most immoral. The Muslim concept of 'fatwa' or 'holy war' should be an oxymoron.

In Australia, Christmas Day is entertainment for children, time off work for relaxation, time for family and friends, festivities, and to reflect on life. But Christmas has been exploited by the retail industry and bank credit cards. What religion openly challenges this immoral exploitation?

Religion is no more than one group of people seeking control and influence over others using fear and intimidation.

The Christian Bible was written by followers of the Christian faith to evangelise their message to supplant other world beliefs with their own, to increase membership and with that to acquire more power an influence.

Quoting from the Bible is no different from quoting a recipe book that claims only one way to cook. Christianity has become a form of colonisation. It has selfishly displaced traditional faiths of local peoples. It has caused wars. In so doing Christianity is an immoral selfish and prejudiced faith that has possibly caused more harm than any other faith.

Religions that discount other faiths are prejudiced and ignorant. Freedom of speech is a democratic right, so any religion that treats criticism of its interpretations as blasphemous is ignorant and immoral.

The Qur'an is the Muslim book of divine guidance and direction. It claims to exhort what is morally right and wrong. But how can any moral code accept quotes like:

"Believers, take neither Jews nor Christians for your friends." (Surah 5:51)

"Seek out your enemies relentlessly." (Surah 4:103-)

"Make war on them until idolatry shall cease and God's religion shall reign supreme." (Surah 8:36-)

"Fight against such as those to whom the Scriptures were given [Jews and Christians]...until they pay tribute out of hand and are utterly subdued." (Surah 9:27-)

For any group to impose their wishes on another group is a form of intimidation and dominance with is illegitimate.

In Australia, Christmas Day is entertainment for children, time off work for relaxation, time for family and friends, festivities, and to reflect on life. But Christmas has been exploited by the retail industry and bank credit cards. What religion openly challenges this immoral exploitation?

What Christian value on that day is held for the indigenous peoples of Australia that typically remain disenfranchised, without the turkey or what it stands for?

The Salvation Army is one of the few religious-based cause committed to tangible altruistic care for the needy at this time. But are they doing the work of what our governments should be doing - providing for the needy in our society?

Examine the history of traditional peoples and compare these with those dominated by religion and compare the moral record and judge which has more merit and a respectful guide for human understanding, spirituality, salvation, lore and behaviour.

Tiger Quoll
Snowy River 3885
Australia

It's extraordinary that Sheila's last paragraph (above) referring to God and Nature appeared coincidentally today with the post (below) from Chris Harries in the online forum Tasmanian Times () and so I feel obliged to partially quote his words: " ... All this is summed up beautifully by Thor Heyerdahl, the Norwegian explorer / adventurer of Kon-Tiki fame who wrote: “Some people are happy inside the church, some are happier outside. "Those who prefer to stay outside should write Nature with a capital N. They should bless and venerate the Nature that composed mankind. "That would leave a thin wall between them and those who are inside and write God with a capital G. "If you knock, it can be heard on both sides. The disagreement is about the spelling of a word.” Peter Bright Hobart Tasmania

Your posts are very enlightening and enlightened. I wonder if people who believe in God seek out others and try to unite as a group in churches/religions, then get used, just as people in political parties do, by those who assume power and then use the group by claiming to be spokesperson for the group. It makes you think that a secret ballot should be de rigeur in every group that has any public representation or wants to set in concrete its basic principles. It seems that every group attracts potential politicians and that the trick is to keep these people under control: Unions, political parties, conservation groups, churches, media networks, corporations ... Once you have given years of your life to a group, having chosen to associate with them because you think they are worthwhile, they become like your tribe. It is then very difficult for you to leave, if you find that the tribal spokesperson is not really singing the tune you joined to hear. Leaving means going out into the social wilderness and starting all over again, which is a big thing in our adult lives. So many people stick with their tribes and try to rationalise what their rogue leaders are saying, or to influence the politics, only to discover that the power bases have been rigged. By the way, although I don't believe in God, I have sometimes found that if I substituted 'God' for nature, it amounted to the same thing, but sounded more compelling in some circles. One can see why our scurvy politicians in Australia have started to publicly appoint high profile religious figures to taskforces and portfolios and to hobnob with popes and dead saints, as well as sportspeople. All such figureheads command a following. They also have predictable behaviour, which can be aligned with a variety of other interests. Sheila Newman, population sociologist

My father was a sensitive, private and intelligent man who suffered from Alzheimer's disease in his early seventies when he was active, slim and healthy. He lost his personality, his mind and became a vegetable for 3 years in a nursing home. His death was slow and painful to watch as his internal organs disintegrated slowly. He would never had wanted this! I believe that people should be given a choice about ending their lives once they face terminal illnesses. It should be a basic human right. My parents had a close marriage and the stress on my mother was fatal. She was healthy at the start of my father's demise, but was diagnosed with terminal cancer just after his death, and died 10 months later. Pro-life sounds encouraging and positive, but as with human rights, there are always conflicts over whose rights are given priority of whose. As for abortion, every baby should be wanted, and with all the technology of contraceptives available, people still can't control their reproduction! I find it disturbing that there are groups who take the moral high-ground on abortion, but ignore the suffering of animals, the animals they probably sit down to eat having more sentience than the fetuses they want to save! Calves are denied their mothers' care and are raised in crates, undernourished, to be processes into veal. Sows are kept in metal crates for up to 4 months without any movement allowed, on concrete floors. Piglets are mutilated, with no pain relief required. Their screams are just ignored, and those doing it would have RSPCA cruelty charges on them if done to companion animals. Little kangaroo joeys can be yanked from their mothers' pouches to be battered to death, without rights or compassion. In a perfect world, with family planning, we would not need abortions. Let's get some balance into the importance of the human race -we need to value of human life, but not at all costs and at the exclusion of other intelligent species, and not if it causes excess suffering and can be avoided!

THE Rudd Government has reneged on a promise to send an Australian ship to monitor Japan's annual slaughter of 1000 minke, humpback and fin whales. For all his pre-election condemnation of Howard government's shallow anti-whaling policies, Rudd has failed the public miserably on what he was voted for - climate change and illegal whale slaughter!

Japan has sent a couple of "coast guard" security vessels down with the fleet. Since when is the coast of Japan in the Antarctic? It may impede Sea Shepherd's efforts, but ultimately it is increasing the frustration and costs to Japan. Their aim - to sink the whaling fleet economically! Our Antarctic EEZ is just being surrendered to Japan's economic power.

I believe we are coming to the End Times, the Earth's destruction as we know it. This world will be done away with and a new heavens and a new earth created (2 Peter 3:7). There will be a great wedding feast celebration of Christ being united with his people (Revelation 21). However, as Captain Paul Watson has pointed out, humans are just primates out of control! The quest for growth in human numbers, at a time of climate change, natural resource limitations, human numbers explosion globally, is some evolutionary flaw that defies all logic. The few elites, those whose self-interests benefit from continual growth, have the power to sway our political leaders and the media. It is a case of impending shipwreck, just raid the purser's lock-up chest and take what you can! The problem with religions is one of conflicts of interests. It is their quest to increase numbers and power, and save positions, so they will not limit growth - through immigration or fertility control. The Christian belief is that humans are "made in the Image of God" (Genesis 1:26). However the responsibilities of "ruling over" the animals, the earth and the sea, have largely been ignored. Focus has centred on anthropocentric benefits of personal faith, not on obligations to non-human creatures and protecting the environment! If humans are such images of God, there cannot be an over-population of them, just like there can't be a limit to too much (potential) goodness, or believers! This is the dilemma! However, images only reflect! Unless we are transformed by God's goodness, we are not "images of God"! Another dilemma is the "niceness" of Christian modern teaching - to turn the other cheek, to be tolerant and forgiving, to be fully accepting. The Christian-background countries such as Canada, USA, UK and Australia are the countries facing massive and unsustainable population growth fuelled by immigration. The weapon of "racism" can be perfectly played out, on what is basically a blank and bland canvas of "niceness" and politeness! We are supposed to be lambs to the slaughter and surrender to the needs of the less fortunate, and the decisions of higher powers to accept those invited here due to their education and skills. Some churches are becoming more active and vocal in environmental and social justice issues, but the elephant in the room, population growth, is taboo! There are fundamentalists groups who reject Darwin's evolutionary theories, and this means that without species adapting to environmental limitations, growth is disconnected from available natural resources! Immigration is globalizing the world's human population explosion and adding to the displacement of genuine refugees. My views are not mainstream, but I hope this makes some sense.
Quiet Tasmania's picture

There is no doubt about it - craziness reigns upon the face of the earth, and there is increasing despair among the sensitive, caring folk remaining. I share your concern about the behaviour of man as he goes about destroying the planet and all its creatures and marvels. What is the explanation for this insane behaviour? Are these "the end times" spoken of in the Bible? From the Biblos website at http://bible.cc/revelation/11-18.htm I found this passage .. "The nations were angry; and your wrath has come. The time has come for judging the dead, and for rewarding your servants the prophets and your saints and those who reverence your name, both small and great -- and for destroying those who destroy the earth." The part I like best is the prediction of destruction for those who are destroying the earth, but I'm not sure how to go about giving God a nudge and saying "Please get on with it, Mate!" Peter Bright Hobart www.pebri.net

Today I ran into a group of Malaysian people admiring brushtail possums in the Catani Gardens, St.KIlda, and taking photos with their faces right up close to them. They were very interested and respectful of our little pouched friends. I saw a program of Sumatran elephants tonight ... last night it was Orang Outangs in Kalimantan. Same story- habitat cleared for timber or mining - nowhere for the animals to go- separations of babies from mothers - a few good Samaritans trying to save the situation- identical stories really. The orang outangs could sign i.e it appeared to me they used language- well symbols- the elephants painted abstract pictures- not that this matters - but how can we have so little sympathy for them?? Or should I ask? How can so few people have any sympathy for them? They are more like us than not like us? It's crazy. The devastation in Sumatra after the forest had been clear felled was unbelievable. How can we do it? We must be psychopathic as a species. We are a terrible infestation on the planet. We have to go ..it's too terrible. We are obscene!! When I think of the mother elephant and that long gestation - giving birth to a baby only to become separated from her and then the baby ends up dying in an "elephant training camp" for lack of proper nourishment. I despair! DESPAIR! And then I read that article about those crazy Christians trying to INCREASE human population. And our crazy primeminister. I DESPAIR!

I would just like to point out a couple of problems with the 'per capita' thing. One is that it is obviously being used as an excuse by green-branded groups and government to increase Australia's population without citizen consent so that a claim can be made to be reducing per-capita emissions by growing the poorer sector. That's a way of having your cake and eating it for the growth-lobby: they can divide an ever growing number of people into the total emissions and point at how the many are consuming less and less (due to living in poverty). At the same time, they can point to growing markets, composed of many low consumers making up a large consumption and paying more money per emission. The elites who are herding us into this mess make more and more money out of every pseudo-solution. It has also been observed elsewhere that this tactic comforts the new class that wants to go on having huge television screens and driving cars and living as if fossil fuel had no tomorrow, but still wearing badges of environmentalism and generosity. How does it do this? They can point to how generous they are to immigrants and refugees, how willing to share they are, and still live high on the hog. Some other per capita will have to make those sacrifices on their behalf, but they will still wear the badge. Oh, then there is the third thing (which is implicit in the above). Industry drives most emissions, the media drive consumption, and most per-capitas (i.e. most people, most Joe-Blows) have little choice. They are just seen as consumers and marketed to and moralised to as such. In much the way that the Church not so long ago picked on its flock for masturbating, knowing that most of them would go on doing it but feeling awful. So it is that most of us are made to feel guilty for being trapped in a media marketed machine that forces us to act against our collective best interests, either by convincing us that what we perceive isn't real, or making us conform by force - e.g. tollways we have to use, immigration policies we weren't consulted on, putting our taxes to destructive use when we have no way of withholding them etc etc. Oh, and of course, the Church is still in the game, trying to make us feel guilty for not having enough per capitas per family. See Tim Murray's article Alliance for death (aka “Life”). I like the idea of Climate Change conflabs being held on Tuvalu. I think the G7 should be held there. In fact it would be a good idea to move the Whitehouse there and Australia's Parliament house there permanently. I don't know if that would daunt the government growth-lobby though; they would probably be flogging Tuvalu ocean views over the internet, with the help of the Foreign Investment Review Board. In fact, has anyone looked at the NFIRB site lately - it could already be happening. Has Shakespeare written something to cover this situation? A classical point of reference might stimulate wider-reaching debate. At the moment I feel that we are each in the position of hobbits, choosing to try to combat the dark forces or deciding to go back to bed and pretend it's all not happening. But the dark forces are certainly abroad, more and more strongly, and, as Frodo was told, I think, they were going to come and get the hobbits, so he might as well go out there and try to stop them before they got there - or some such. Where are the Ents? They had better hurry. Sheila Newman, population sociologist

Vivienne, What do you think of Tim's latest article about the religious growth lobby, which is doing the same thing that kangaroos do to survive, but with less reason. For instance, do you think, that some of their activities are cynically designed to increase economic activity, or do you think they are just pawns of the economic growth lobby? How would you combat their ad, which strikes me as ridiculous, but which obviously seems logical to some people out there. Sheila Newman

Dr John Auty 'The Kangaroo BETRAYED!' : "When a shooter enters the structured society of a mob of kangaroos, he destroys a rich, complex system by killing the alpha male, his immediate rivals, and the older females, who are the educators of the mob. This selective hunting results in females mating with young males and the loss of the inherited strengths of the mob." According to the late Dr Peter Rawlinson, zoologist at Latrobe University: When wild populations are under such stress, they breed furiously to preserve their species in a desperate attempt to prevent their demise. Labelling a native species as a "pest" or "vermin" is purely subjective and occurs when human objectives clash with those of the original inhabitants of the land. Since European settlement, we have altered and damaged the landscape of our country irreparably, and in many cases, beyond recognition. The loathing of kangaroos is due to their ability to survive human onslaughts, defy the laws of natural selection, and their inherent ability live frugally within ancient ecosystem - what we as a species are failing to do! With the power, aggression, greed and dominance of the human race, we could easily eradicate all other species in the quest for dominance and economic benefits.

When Captain Cook arrived in Australia I can't recall in any of the history books, he or anyone else saying, "Gee this is a nice place, however it is overrun by these animals we now call kangaroos" He thought the place so great others followed. 200 years later we now have a plague of kangaroos!! give me break!!! we now have a plague of humans and all the destruction they brought with them. We have wrecked the place in 200 years and the kangaroos lived in harmony for 16 million years. We are the ones who are out of tune!

Wong is *a word has been Censored here, as it is not politically correct* for saying this: '...growth in our carbon pollution - has essentially tracked our population and economic growth, we have to break that link and that the whole world has to break that link and so does Australia... The irony of Ms Wong *Censored, Non-Politically Correct Words Removed* making this comment, regarding increasing our population (and don't worry about the pollution it causes) cannot escape even the blandest and most politically correct of Ordinary Australians ... or don't they care that house prices are being forced through the roof. Unsustainable levels of growth with the consequent pollution, lack of water and arable land might force even you Ms Wong to... Please (Re) Consider. For my own comment on immigration/population at this site: http://candobetter.org/node/1724#comment-3831. The above link seems to have disappeared ?! My Book & Website www.somethingfunnygoingon.com If you're interested in Civil Liberties, Over population & Pollution and don't mind caustic humor, Agent Provocateur: the backlash against the anti smoking campaign is a Voice backed by research and reason.

Sheila,

Humanity's perpetual desire to extract meaning from the world is ageless. Also ageless is humanity's desire to control the world.

The formation of the United Nations (UN) after the Second World War on 24th October, 1945 was a product of global humanity's desire to steer a form of moral control of the world, delegated to a centralisation collaboration model - the UN.

The UN was a global control model formed as a response to a global war designed with a committee of the leading 10 nations at the time to discuss (read 'shape') social and economic issues. "The United States, Great Britain, Soviet Union, and China would enforce peace as "the four policemen"

But look at the UN's results to date! Look at the conflicts that have had the UN sent in to resolve and consistently botch! Look at unresolved social unrest, humanitarian crises and abandonned genocides to date! Look at the UN's performance since 1945:

1948 Palestine - failed
1949 Kashmir - failed
1956 Suez - took 11 years
1958 Lebanon - failed
1962 West New Guinea - failed
1964 Congo - failed
1963 Yemen - failed
1964 Cyprus - failed
1965 Dominican Republic - ?
1965 Kashmir - failed again
1973 Sinai - took six years
1974 Golan Heights - failed
1978 Lebanon - failed again
1988 Afghanistan - failed
1988 Iran-Iraq conflict - failed
1989 Angola - failed
1989 Namibia - ?
1989 Nicaragua - took 4 years
1991 Iraq invasion of Kuwait - failed (USA had to invade)
1991 Angola - failed
1991 El Salvador - took 4 years
1991 Western Sahara - ?
1991 Cambodia - failed (Khmer Rouge slaughtered millions)
1992 Yugoslavia - failed (Bosnian genocide proceeded unchecked)
1992 Somalia - failed
1992 Eritrea - failed (go to 2000)
1992 Mozambique - took 2 years
1993 Somalia - second attempt failed
1993 Rwanda - failed (Tutsi genocide)
1993 Georgia - failed - still continuing in 2009
1993 Liberia - took 4 years
1993 Haiti - failed first round
1994 Libya's withdrawal from Chad - success
1994 Tajikistan civil war - took 6 years
1995 Angola - failure
1995 Croatia - ?
1995 Macedonia conflict with Albania - took 4 years
1995 Bosnia and Herzegovina - allowed genocide, took until 7 years
1996 Eastern Slavonia, Baranja, and Western Sirmium - took 2 years
1996 Prevlaka penninsula (Croatia) took 6 years
1996 Haiti - second round failed
1997 Guatemala - ?
1997 Angola - took another 2 years
1997 Haiti - failed
1997 Haiti - took 3 years
1998 Croatia - ?
1998 Central African Republic - took 2 years
1998 Sierra Leone - failure
1999 Kosovo - doubtful
1999 Sierra Leone - took another 6 years
1999 East Timor -failure
2002 East Timor - failed again (go to 2005)
1999 Guinea-Bissau - ?
1999 Democratic Republic of the Congo - failure
2000 Ethiopia conflict with Eritrea - took 8 years
2002 East Timor - took till 2005
2003 Liberia - ?
2004 Côte d'Ivoire - ?
2004 Haiti - third try- ?
2004 Burundi - took 2 years
2005 Sudan - ?
2006 Timor-Leste - ?
2007 Darfur - ?
2007 Central African Republic and Chad - ?

In the 60 year history of the UN, it has chronically failed its conflict resolution mandate.

Look at how the UN steered and controlled the Copenhagen summit! It didn't. The UN failed the global community on its undertaking to execute tangible targets on greenhouse gas emissions.

The UN is a convenient instrument for the most powerful developed countries to delegate unwanted their complex multi-national problems. But over 60 years it has consistently proven to be a chronic failure.

The first step is to review the UN failures, starting with UN Development Programme's (UNDP) failure at Copenhagen. The UN World Government model is utopia at its most utopian.

Tiger Quoll
Snowy River 3885
Australia

Senator Wong told The Weekend Australian (12 Dec) the government had already factored in Australia's economic circumstances. "We have set clear conditions for our target range and our different economic circumstances are embodied in those conditions and in the target levels we have set," she said. "We haven't put forward the 20-30 per cent cuts Europe is proposing because our economy is different, and we will be fully accountable for any target we put forward." Our economy is "different" because we depend on population growth, whereas many European countries are stabilising their numbers - what our government would call "stagnation"! So, for all Wong's rhetoric and policies and talk of targets etc etc, we won't even be trying to reduce our greenhouse gas emissions by even 20%! According to the Population Reference Bureau from 2004 to 2025 the United States is expected to increase in population from 294 million (1990) to 349 million. Australia is expected to have a population of more than 25 million by 2050, concentrated in the capital cities, which are becoming “magnets” for skilled workers from around the world. Over this same period, Europe is expected to decrease in population from 728 (1990) million to 722 million. Based on expected population trends, any treaty based on the total greenhouse gas emissions of countries will strongly favour Europe over the United States and Australia. Even so, the temperature in Europe has risen by an average 0.95°C in the last 100 years and is projected to climb by a further 2.0°- 6.3° this century as greenhouse gas emissions continue to build up. Yet Austria, Belgium, Italy, Ireland and Spain, according to an EU Climate change progress report published by the European Commission on 27 October 2006, will not be able to meet even the modest emissions targets set by the Kyoto Protocol (an 8% reduction from base year levels - normally 1990 - by 2008-12). (Optimum Population Trust: Too many people: Europe's population problem) The "difference" is our economy is dependent on population growth, and the mammoth in the room being ignored by our hypocritical leaders who are ready to risk our future generations' climate health and the liveability of the planet they will inherit. Even a 5% reduction of ghg emissions based on 1990 figures, at our rate of human expansion, is over ambitious! What about Wong and Rudd being "fully accountable" not just for impossible yet modest targets, but for the people of Australia as they are supposed to pay more for using power, energy and water while they, our governments, continue to add consumers (to compensate for an "ageing population"), and encourage mass consumption and gluttony?

"Asian led investor interest in Banyule property" of 22 Dec 09. - JS said: ..."Our housing market has been globalised to the detriment of our existing population." ***************************************************** I have recently had the following confirmed by a colleague: I work with a Chinese Nurse & her husband is a doctor/surgeon ~ they have 3 sons ~ (something that they could not have in China, which has, predominately from the 1980's - a one child policy) While this couple arrived in Australia through 'appropriate channels' ~ she has told me that many do not: she was telling me that a few years ago, it was common practice for Chinese (& other races) - to pay $30,000 a head to 'get into' Australia. She believes that the price (paid to the Government) is higher now, but 'no problem for Chinese' - many who are involved in what we would consider 'criminal activity' to earn their money. Often the male head of the house, involved in the lucrative, but illegal earnings (in - say China - as well as other countries ) - will stay put, sending his family to Australia first, to establish a life here. He may then continue to earn large sums of money to buy homes etc. ( homes, plural: for the other members of the family) This practice has of course, sent house prices through the roof ~ and no hard working, honest employee and Australian National can compete with the astronomical amounts of illegally earned income, which these 'Immigrants' bring with them. If the knowledge of this practice is intolerable to you ~ ask yourself this question: What can be done about it ? “Talk is cheap. Words are plentiful. Deeds are precious.” H Ross Perot quotes http://thinkexist.com/quotation/talk_is_cheap-words_are_plentiful-deeds_... My Book Is Here: www.somethingfunnygoingon.com Agent Provocateur: the backlash against the anti-smoking campaign ~ is fundamentally about Civil Rights ~ also discussing Over Population & Pollution.. Available for sale on line and available at the National Library of Australia: ISBN:978-0-646-50739-2

Well done Dame Judi Dench! Not only famous and successful, but she also has a heart and a conscience. Three million cats, dogs, monkeys and other animals are experimented on in Britain's laboratories every year with many suffering extreme and often unnecessary pain, say animal campaigners. Government claims that the experiments are tightly controlled are rejected by Science Without Suffering, which is backed by celebrities such as Dame Judi Dench and Joanna Lumley, and Wendy Higgins of the anti-animal research charity, the Dr Hadwen Trust. Judi Dench also signed teddy bears to be auctioned to raise funds for WSPA, for the Idaho Rehabilitation Centre which cares for orphaned bear cubs. A UK version of a controversial US reality show that featured 44 dwarves competing in a tug-of-war with an elephant was pulled out by ITV bosses at the last minute. The Granada-produced show, based on a hit American series of the same name, came in for fierce criticism from the RSPCA, Dame Judi Dench and Virginia McKenna's Born Free Foundation. She is also a patron of Patrons of Animals' Voice in the UK. Dame Judi has also helped on many campaigns over the years, including gracing the cover of PETA guide to cruelty-free charities. It is reassuring that there are celebrity role-models out there who are willing to provide a voice for those without one - - and they are ANIMALS!

Of course there was never going to be any binding agreements! Australia is one of the worst climate change offenders in the world. How was Rudd to agree to be cutting greenhouse gas emissions when he is going full-forward in the contrary direction! Action speaks louder than words, and the Copenhagen conference was doomed to fail. We are encouraged to change to low-emission light bulbs and install water-saving shower heads, but at the same time we are being seduced into Christmas spending to support commercial mass markets, and are under pressure from developers to submit into larger populations. According to Choice online, Australia has the fourth highest greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions, per capita, in the world. At 25.6 tonnes per person, we emit more than twice the EU average and four times the world average. How are we to decrease greenhouse gas emissions? This is clearly an impossible task when we continue to increase the numbers of consumers within this country. We can't expect people from low-emitting countries to reduce their lifestyles while we continue ours. The best way to reduce Australia’s greenhouse gas emissions is to decrease population growth. By importing people here from developing countries they are magnifying their emissions to our high levels.

World government is a nonsense. We need to act locally. That is where we need to be empowered. And the States and nations need to take their orders from local constituents. And the locals need to stop land-clearing and new construction and the population growth that drives these. And we all need to work less to produce less emissions. With stable populations we would not need to pay for land for housing; we would simply inherit it. So we would not have to work and churn out all those emissions to pay greedy banks and developers just to sleep under a roof. Life would become ours again. Sheila Newman, population sociologist

A story about Stella and Alan Reid's Wildhaven rescue and rehab service for wildlife that was burned out in Kinglake during the awful fires in February this year, will be aired on Channel 7 on Christmas Day. "Greetings all and a very Merry Christmas from Wildhaven, Channel 7 paid us a return visit recently and we received the news below this morning. If you would like to know a little more about the recovery process at Wildhaven, please have a look at Today Tonight at 6:30 on Christmas Day. I can't tell you much more than that because so much was covered during their visit. Love Stella NB That's Christmas Day, not Christmas Eve." Sheila Newman, population sociologist

Australia is a big place. Who keeps fencing the boomers in? Let 'em out! And put the top soil and gums back. Thanks to outback graziers, once beautiful Queensland has become a parched, shadeless home of the dust storm. Tiger Quoll Snowy River 3885 Australia

Foreign ownership in Australia property not only pushes up prices for Australia real estate, by increasing demand relative to supply, increased scarcity indirectly pushes up prices of rents. Foreign ownership of residential property end up displacing local people, because it makes the Australian way of life which is centred around owning one's own home, out of reach.

Foreign ownership of Australian proerty is a form of invasion. It is property invasion.

Melbourne and Sydney have seen interstate migration to Queensland largely because locals cannot afford the lifestyle they once aspired to in these two cities. Queensland has been cheaper and still is comparatively. But look at the consequential sprawl from Lismore to Tweed to Noosa!

"The Australian Government's approach to foreign investment policy is generally to encourage foreign investment in Australian property, business and industry."
http://www.propertyinvestmentplanning.com.au/investors.htm

Foreign Investment Review Board Policy

Residential Real Estate
SOURCE: http://www.firb.gov.au/content/default.asp

"The Government seeks to ensure that foreign investment in residential real estate increases the supply of dwellings and is not speculative in nature. The policy seeks to channel foreign investment in the housing sector into activity that directly increases the supply of new housing (that is, new developments such as house and land, home units and townhouses) and brings benefits to the local building industry and its suppliers.

The effect of the more restrictive policy measures on developed residential real estate is twofold. Firstly, it helps reduce the possibility of excess demand building up in the existing housing market. Secondly, it aims to encourage the supply of new dwellings, many of which would become available to Australian residents, either for purchase or rent. The cumulative effect should be to maintain greater stability of house prices and the affordability of housing for the benefit of Australian residents."

But the policy is not working!

The policy states that "Foreign persons are prohibited from acquiring established dwellings for investment purposes (that is, they cannot be purchased to be used as a rental or holiday property), irrespective of whether they are temporary residents in Australia or not."

But here are the exceptions:

* "Foreign persons who are temporary residents in Australia do not require approval to acquire a second-hand dwelling as their principal place of residence."

* Foreign-owned companies can acquire second-hand dwellings for the purpose of providing housing for their Australian-based staff (including migrants) provided the company undertakes to sell or rent the property if it is expected to remain vacant for six months or more.

*Vacant Land can be acquired by foreigners so long as substantial construction of single dwelling or multi-dwelling commences within 2 years."

Other exemptions (extract):


* You are a New Zealander
* You hold a permanent resident visa
* You are a temporary resident
* You are purchasing new dwelling(s) from the developer, where the developer has pre-approval to sell those dwellings to foreign persons
* You are acquiring an interest in developed commercial property valued at less than $50 million or $953 million (indexed annually) for US investors
* You are acquiring an interest in developed commercial property where the property is to be used immediately and in its present state for industrial or non residential commercial purposes."

So foreigners with money can go for it!

Rudd has removed barriers to entry into Australia from both a property ownership and employment perspective. His globe trotting penchant makes him think he's on the world stage with the big boy like the US, UK and China. But he is sick of punching above his weight. I'll fix that thinks Rudd, immigration! Invite em in from everywhere, recond immigration will fix it. Australia will get big and populated like the big boys and then they'll start listening to me at the negotiating tables.

Neocolonial Ruddism is all about one man's insecurity as a diplomat. Of course people from less well off countries want to come to Australia. Of course people from overcrowded countries want to come to Australia. Rudd selfishly ignores the costs and impacts on Australia. State Governments can't cope with the populations they've got.
But that's we're Rudd's got the control and power. The populous states are all Labor.
For Labor premier to dare criticise Rudd would be heresy.

Tiger Quoll
Snowy River 3885
Australia

On ABCTV news last night (Monday 21 December 2009), there was a dreadful report from south west Queenland about a "plague" of kangaroos and how they were a "pest". A farmer claimed to be hamstrung by limited quotas and a collapsing kangaroo-meat industry in his attempts to get rid of an estimated 2,500 kangaroos on his property which had taken refuge there after recent rains. http://www.abc.net.au/contact/complain.htm The reporter described this 'problem' as costing the farmer tens of thousands of dollars. Something to the effect that 'if there had been that many locusts(!) on the property the government would step in and do something about the pest problem' was said. It was the worst report I had seen in a long time. The only saving grace was they said the industry needed to clean up its act and imports had been banned by Russia. It seemed obvious that the kangaroos had been attracted by new rain on the property as they fled long-term drought. Kangaroo population numbers are actually falling because of shooting combined with drought or climate change, but no mention was made of this far more serious fact. The report used the same tired old, untried and untrue myths about kangaroos being in plague numbers. It is unworthy of the ABC to treat our national icon in this way - to treat any living creature in this way, but particularly a beautiful, noble animal which was here before us and is so much more sustainable than us. The ABC needs to correct the damaging impression it has created of this gentle creature and do more stories to strengthen respect for nature and particularly for kangaroos. What has become of this country, where once most people loved and respected nature and our indigenous fauna? Are we degenerating into a bunch of fat McDonalds hamburger-squaffing vicarious Seinberg shut-ins? If so, time that Australians turned off their tvs and got out and about in their gardens and the countryside more.

On the front page of Heidelberg Leader, the local Banyule newspaper, last week was the headline:"Investor interest - Asian buyers join property search"[1].

The article goes on to say "Foreign investors are powering Banyule's property market surge". The auctions are fully booked until Christmas, and the market, according to one real estate agent after 10 years, the market had never been stronger! "All the signs are good....". Asians, particularly, were fuelling the market. According to the agent, "eight of the 10 sales in 3081 postcode are Asian buyers". "Great investment opportunities compared to Beijing", no doubt is true.

Last Saturday had some "terrific results". A recent brochure from a real estate agent showed local sale results in the area all well over $1 million!
Australia used to be known as a country of home-owners. Not any more.
The ability of local young people to buy a house has been destroyed by the pro-growth lobby who are benefiting by forcing housing prices to rise out of reach of the average person.

Housing and mortgages have steadily risen along with land prices due to population growth - deliberately driven by our excessive immigration rate. House prices push up the rental markets too.

Our housing market has been globalised to the detriment of our existing population.

Housing is a basic human right, not a privilege.
The parasite investors are becoming wealthy at the expense of the majority! "Working families", and our youth, are mere victims. They will need a king's ransom to buy an average house?

Our State government has a mandate to make policies for the benefit of the people of Australia, not for a select group of business elite and foreign investors who are being given priority over the majority of the electorate.
This is treachery and a betrayal of the interests of the people of Australia, and sell-out to the highest bidder, without any consciousness or patriotism.
Our government is globalising Australia for international education, for cheap citizenship and now our property market.

Footnotes

1, The online version of this story is "Asian led investor interest in Banyule property" of 22 Dec 09. - JS

Menkit, It may sound mean, but one way of not being just a voice in the wilderness is to go on the attack in a focused way. By exposing Anna Bligh to a breach of policy/law or else immoral conduct you have her attention or at least the media's attention on her. You could start investigating by applying for a Freedom of Iformation request on Anna Bligh's trip in May 2009 to Russia to promote Kangarooo meat exports. It is also constructive to contact and network with like minded groups on this specific issue and gain an alliance to investigate the kangaroo meat export business specifically in Queensland. SOURCE: http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,,25373853-3102,00.html Networking options: http://www.savethekangaroo.com/index.shtml http://www.catcahelpanimals.org/KangarooSlaughterinAustralia.html http://www.animalliberation.org.au/comkang.php http://www.awpc.org.au/kangaroos/my_view.htm http://www.kangarooslaughter.com/ http://www.hsus.org/hsi/confronting_cruelty/animal_cruelty_around_the_wo... http://archive.lee.greens.org.au/index.php/content/view/591/50/ http://www.canberraroos.com/ If the trade to Russia is stopped, the kangaroo industry becomes unviable. Read this: http://www.meatinternational.com/news/australia-presses-russia-to-cancel... I would also be questioning Greenpeace's support for slaughtering kangaroos too. http://www.seashepherd.org/news-and-media/news-071011-1.html I also suggest you grab the major newspapers and obtain the names of the journalists that focus on environmental issues and contact them on this subject. Try these two sites for exporters of kangaroo meat. I suspect these are the main culprits. Macro Meats http://www.macromeats-gourmetgame.com.au/ Kangaroo Export Import International http://www.australianexporters.net/companyID7734.htm Hope this helps. It remains an issue I am continuing with. Tiger Quoll Snowy River 3885 Australia

If Australia was serious about protecting its citizens when travelling abroad it could start by doing two things:

1. Dissuade Australian tourism to countries that impose the death penalty, on the basis that it is contrary to Australia morals. This would send a strong message to those countries. They wouldn't like it, but if it saves one Australian life, it would be worth the diplomatic hostility.

2. Establish a Bilateral Custodian Exchange Convention with each of those countries that impose the death penalty on foreign nationals including Australians. Under this convention, Australian nationals sentenced to a custodial sentence in a signatory country would be automatically deported and repatriated to serve commensurate time back in an Australian prison. Australia would thus bare costs of deportation and incarceration of its own nationals. Reciprocally, foreign nationals if convicted and gven a custodial sentence in one of the signatory countries would likewise be automatically deported back to the country of origin to serve a commensurate custodial at the expenese of that country of origin. teh moral principle is that like pays for like and deals with its own.

The following identifoes the extent of the problem besseting Australia nationals on death row and the respective countries:

Australians on Death Row

[Source: http://www.nswccl.org.au/issues/death_penalty/death_row.php]

"The following Australians have been executed in recent years:

Van Tuong Nguyen - HANGED ON 2 DECEMBER 2005 in Singapore
Michael McAuliffe - HANGED ON 19 JUNE 1993 in Malaysia
Kevin Barlow - HANGED ON 7 JULY 1986 in Malaysia
Brian Chambers - HANGED ON 7 JULY 1986 in Malaysia

The following Australians are facing the death penalty overseas either because they have been convicted of, or charged with, offences that attract a death sentence:
Henry Chhin - CONVICTED & sentenced to death (suspended) in China
Andrew Chan (Bali 9) - CONVICTED & sentenced to death in Indonesia
Myuran Sukumaran (Bali 9) - CONVICTED & sentenced to death in Indonesia
Scott Rush (Bali 9) - CONVICTED & sentenced to death in Indonesia

The following Australians are no longer in jeopardy of execution:
Schapelle Corby - sentenced to 20 years in prison
Tallaal Adrey - sentenced to 4 years hard labour
Tran Thi Hong Loan - sentenced to 20 years in prison

Seven of the Bali Nine have been sentenced to life imprisonment:
Michael William Czugaj
Renae Lawrence
Martin Eric Stephens
Tan Duc Thanh Nguyen
Si Yi Chen
Matthew Norman
Nguyen Van Chinh - death sentence commuted to life in Vietnam
Mai Cong Thanh - death sentence commuted to life in Vietnam
Trinh Huu - death sentence commuted to life in Vietnam
Aggrey Kiyingi - acquitted
George Forbes - conviction quashed on appeal
Barry Hess - convicted of lesser charges in Indonesia
Tony Manh - death sentence commuted to life in Vietnam
Jasmine Luong - death sentence commuted to life in Vietnam."

Note they are all east Asian countries in our region.

As to how many foreign nationals are in custody in Australia prisons?
Good question, but statistics are hard to find.
At least none of them is on death row.

Tiger Quoll
Snowy River 3885
Australia

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