Comments

admin

Fri, 2010-10-29 05:31

I think John Marlowe and Bandicoot should be commended for having drawn our attention to reasons to be very wary of Prime Minister Julia Gillard. Nevertheless, I think Gillard should still also be commended for having stood up to and toppled her awful predecessor, instead of having been meekly subordinate to the misrule of her 'leader' as nearly all Federal Labor politicians have been for the last three decades at least. I haven't completely abandoned my hope that Gillard will turn out to be a significant improvement upon Kevin Rudd, but, sadly, that hope is now considerably diminished.

John Marlowe

Thu, 2010-10-28 22:38

Gillard's reckless legacy of waste and mismanagement from her championed 'education revolution' continues to plague her credibility now as PM. Gillard was complicit in the Rudd gang of four's failed insulation scheme and the failed green loans scheme. The Gillard Government's nationalisation of health has stalled. The emissions trading scheme seems all but abandoned. The Murray Darling water sharing solution ignored rural communities.

Some record of so-called 'reform'! It is not reform - it is Rudd's popularism legacy.

Now PM Gillard is spruiking 'reform' in tax and superannuation under another hastily thought through scheme, which in true Labor style has sought to only divide and conquer the mining industry. How can reform be based on selective favouritism of a few big mining companies?

It is Labor short-termism at best, driven by classic Sussex Street manipulative self-serving bullying. Dare anyone disagrees with Labor and its methods of 'reform', or Gillard will label you a 'Hansonite'. How unfair on someone who has long left politics!

Gillard is not moving forward. She is policy spinning and getting nowhere fast.
Her inexperience and simpleton outlook is revealing the real Gillardite that the Sussex Street puppeteers implanted as PM. Gillard and Keneally should really get along - same party, same puppeteers, albeit different puppet shows.

Bandicoot

Wed, 2010-10-27 08:14

If Julia Gillard's economic "reforms" mean globalisation in cloaked terms, then despite the "prosperity" it may have brought, Julia Gillard is going in the wrong direction. Mr Abbott said Gillard's attacks were designed to divert attention from her failure to deliver election promises on her new mining tax, climate change and border security, and amid public concern about whether the National Broadband Network offered value for money. Julia Gillard has declared national interest will decide the government's response to Singapore's takeover bid for the Australian Securities Exchange. Perhaps we should sell our government and outsource Parliament to be run for us - in "national interests"! Before the elections, she promised to move "Forward". We have the NBN in a shambles, no policy on asylum seekers, nothing being done about climate change, the Murray Darling crisis, and her stance against a "big Australia" has dwindled to nought. It's important to identify what is market-based reforms and what is not. If protecting our sovereignty, our nation-hood, our land, our people, our history and our heritage from global forces that split Australia into pieces of international ownership is "Hansonism", then bring back Pauline Hanson! She is forgiven for her racism! What was the point of the Anzacs in World War 11? Perhaps if Japan has conquered our shores, we would have a bigger economy by now? We don't exist for the Economy, but it exists for us, and for the benefit of the people and nation of Australia!

CSI (not verified)

Tue, 2010-10-26 08:59

Unfortunately the various forces driving Australia's rapid, perpetual population growth seem irresistible. Something will stop us growing, probably within a century, but we won't do voluntarily. * The vast majority of business leaders are obsessed with short term profit above all else. Population growth is more profitable short term, whereas population stabilization is unprofitable short and medium term. * Our politicians are mostly hardcore cornucopians (especially our former PM and now foreign minister Kevin Rudd). * Most everyday people are cornucopian too, in a kind of lazy unthinking way. * Our economy seems to have become fine-tuned to depend on perpetual rapid population growth.

James Sinnamon

Mon, 2010-10-25 22:17

Thanks, Tim and quark, for your excellent insights. If it were possible to have a comprehensive 'time and motion' study of all of our lives today and we were to compare it to a similar 'time and motion' study of 100 years ago, there would be little doubt that most of us have lost very badly as a consequence of 'growth' and our supposedly improved economy. As quark pointed out, it takes at least two incomes of people on ordinary income to support a family, whereas fifty years ago in Australia it was easily possible for most people to do that on one income. That is only one of many examples that indisputably proves that we have become, on average, much poorer. What economist could be unaware of this? So, why do so many insist, contrary to this hard evidence, that we have, instead, become wealthier? And why do they attempt to further deceive us, by insisting that more of the same, that is, more population growth and more economic 'reform' will make us more prosperous, when they must know, unless they are stupid, that it can only make us, on average, even poorer and impoverish many? On top of that, to which Tim has so eloquently drawn our attention, so much of our scarce remaining non-working time is taken up in so many more ways than it used to be. The most obvious is, of course, our much greater commuting and travel times. Additionlly, so much more of our time is taken up, by our being legally or economically required to deal with vastly more vastly more complicted government and commercial red tape. As Tim has rightly shown us, the 'growth' pushers are stealing our time, as well as our wealth and our future.

quark

Mon, 2010-10-25 21:17

From the depths of the past I remember this question making it into conversations, newspaper articles and the occasional musing radio broadcast. I don't think it went on for very long because the future, now the present caught up and it is nothing like this almost Utopian dream where we might have been at a loss for entertainment and fulfillment working a 3 or 4 day week for a fairly good standard of living. We are in a frenzy here in Australia too, Tim. Children are over scheduled with after school activities and extra learning. You have to sound impatient when you answer the phone or else you will be seen as unimportant or with time on your hands. Apart from the requirements of one's image, people are also genuinely busy. I haven't done the research but it is obvious that more hours are now worked per household than used to be the case decades ago. Two people now work to pay off the mortgage and support a family as well as paying for child care which used not to be needed. I do not believe that all young women postpone motherhood and put their babies (who are only babies for a very short time) into child care purely because they love their jobs so much. I think there is more often a financial imperative. I'm sure we could have had that leisured future that put its nose over the parapet so briefly decades ago. Had it been so, imagine all the time that could have gone into writing poetry, painting pictures, talking with friends, sitting and thinking..etc. Those who rule the roost did not want it like this. Now it seems that people have to be daily funneled down freeways or injected into trams to work long hours that leave them in exhausted shock just to survive and keep going.

CSI (not verified)

Mon, 2010-10-25 17:15

Howard and Rudd both supported and encouraged a massive increase in immigration, and then patted themselves on the back for averting an "oncoming crisis" of underfunded retirees. Ironically a couple of generations from now their successors will curse, not thank them, when this huge new population boom themselves face retirement. Something which anyone, who is capable of long term thought (i.e. not a politician or business leader), will see is inevitable. Unfortunately the first response of that future government will be to boost the Australian population to even huger numbers to help pay for this latest generation of retirees, thus repeating the cycle all over again.

Bandicoot

Mon, 2010-10-25 14:57

Wildlife, Information, Rescue and Education Service (WIRES) said on Friday it is receiving calls to rescue hundreds of seabirds found dying on the coast. The birds, mainly short-tailed shearwaters or Tasmanian mutton birds as they are sometimes known, are on their annual migration - one of the longest of any bird. Many reach the limits of exhaustion, especially if the weather turns nasty towards the end of their epic journey south to avoid the severe northern hemisphere winter. Thousands of the birds have washed up on the beaches of Tasmania, Victoria and South Australia due bad weather during their journey. There is an assurance that hundreds of dead birds turning up on New South Wales far south coast beaches are due to natural reasons. Exhaustion due to bad weather en route appears to be the cause, Biosecurity Queensland said in a statement. Rainfall records were broken over much of Queensland in a windy September and October records also look set to fall. A similar event occurred five years ago when short-tailed shearwaters were found dead around Fraser Island. The short-tailed shearwater, alias the muttonbird, is subject to both recreational and commercial hunting in Tasmania. Recreational killing of muttonbirds requires a licence and there is a 2 week season. The victims of hunting are the chicks who are taken from their burrows in sand dunes along the coast of Tasmania. Many chicks are killed in a barbaric way. Commonly they are swung around the killer's head until their neck breaks, or in some cases the chick's heads are stomped on and they may still be staggering around. Gillnet fisheries in the North Pacific drown many thousands of birds annually. These birds are vulnerable to many threats, here and on their long journeys.

quark

Mon, 2010-10-25 09:40

Dear Mr. Batchelor, I would like to express my utter alarm at the proposal that suburban trees be savagely lopped so that branches are 2 meters from power lines. This blanket decree whilst perhaps adhering to the letter of bushfire recommendations in areas of Melbourne which do not experience bushfires and eliminating a remote risk, deprives us with 100% certainly of much needed shade , the cooling effect of trees through transpiration and will increase the use of air conditioners. Please do not go through with this exercise which will ruin our liveability this summer. I know the leafy suburbs are derided for having trees as though it is some kind of middle class privilege . I would like all suburbs to have trees to the maximum. That is how we have some chance of preserving some quality of life in Melbourne as our population rockets . This is especially important since we are losing and will continue to lose trees as our gardens go under opportunistic infilling and densification. cc Premier John Brumby cc Stonnington Mayor and all coucillors

Anonymous (not verified)

Mon, 2010-10-25 06:09

For years now I have been disgusted and upset at the sight of trees in streets that have been deformed to accomodate cables. This, for me, symbolises natures pain and the dictatorial and vandal nature of our government. Recently this practise has been, unbelievably, stepped up. Thanks to your protests and those of some Councils - Boroondara and Stonnington Councils (also MAV?) will be holding talks with Premier Brumby, Energy Minister Batchelor and the Electricity Safe Victoria (ESV) which brought in the new draconian regulation that all street trees under/near power lines must be lopped so that "structural branches" are removed from trees. This means that trees will be lopped back to the tree trunks and will end up as stumps. This will cost millions and resident rates will escalate. (Lots of work for contractors though) Plus your property values will deflate if your street trees are mangled. ESV claims this is necessary because of a "windstorm in April" and as a result of the Bushfire Royal Commission recommendations. Ever had a bushfire in your suburb? Please write - if you have not already done so - to Premier Brumby [email protected] and Energy Minister Batchelor [email protected] and the Mayor of your suburb asking them to stop the chop and review the 2010 regulation and ensure that Councils have exemptions for lopping street trees. Source: Julianne Bell of Protectors of Public Lands Victoria, Inc. Editorial comment: Thank you, greatly, Julianne Bell, for having alerted us to this. Please also, send to me, copies of any correspondences to John Brumby etc. and any reponses or, better still, post them here yourself in your comments, as any site visitor can (subject to our moderation) here, to the Your Say (or "Miscellaneous Comments pages") or to any other appropriate page on candobetter.org. Personally, I think that given the enormous benefit that the Internet offers to most of us, including its ability to reduce our consumption of non-renewable natural resources, some expense to build it in the first place and even some amount of disruption to our natural environment can be justified, but nowhere near to the extent we are being made to endure now. Nearly all of the destruction could have been avoided if the natural monoply had been taken advantage of and the silly contrived 'competition' of having two sets of cables run past each house, below ground and above ground, often through the trees, had been avoided, especially if Telstra has remained in public hands. If cables had to have been erected above ground, then the greater expense (even if it proved to be greater) of having cables skirt around trees, rather than be built through them would have been easily justified. - JS (end of editorial comment).

Sheila Newman

Sun, 2010-10-24 16:19

To be frank, I think that we can confuse the media annointed heads of business and commercial think-tanks with the government and with the opposition without getting too blurry at all. Unfortunately the ALP, and probably also the Libs, are so deeply invested in the whole land speculation and property development thing that their funds and party wealth are hopelessly tied to high immigration. I have written before that I see the ALP and ALP governments as commercial land companies, not real governments anymore. For instance, the way that laws are made by the parliament in Victoria to privilege development over democracy is a clear case of total failure of government to respond to its voting constituents, therefore should be a case to disqualify the ALP from government. As to whether there is a constitutional or other legal way to do this, I am still looking. The Green Brand party doesn't seem at all interested in differentiating itself from the government which has lost its way.

Sheila Newman

Sun, 2010-10-24 16:05

I think that 'luxury air-conditioned camps' is a false claim, Mr Rich. The detainment centres are more or less prisons, which people are held in until such time as they can establish the legality of their claims to be asylum seekers.* We need to give these people the benefit of the doubt and of charity, as we would hope would be done for us. It does not help the case for low immigration to stick the boot into people who have taken a desperate route to get here. The ideal of asylum is to give people political refuge from terrible political regimes. Unfortunately Australia has a terrible political regime which accords its citizens very few real rights. At the moment it is our relative affluence that protects us from starvation, not our rights as citizens. This situation cannot last continuing population growth though, which is why population growth is a citizens' rights and democracy issue. Unless we carve out some real democracy in this country we cannot affect forced high immigration and therefore we cannot protect our environment and quality of life, or standard of living. By the way, the situation in Canada, where definitions of 'in need of asylum' and 'refugee' are much looser than in Australia, does sound really problematic. It is more helpful to discuss this matter without the pejoratives, like 'scroungers'. I appreciate that people are upset by the situation and that this is probably in part a reaction to mainstream media political manipulation, which wants to distract the public from the huge numbers of 'legal' immigrants and visitors here. For this reason we need to be calm and look factual here in the free press. *If they subsequently are unable to show that they have a legitimate claim then they can be held indefinitely and charged for the 'privilege' if they refuse to return to their country of origin and if they have destroyed the papers to show where they should be repatriated, as sometimes happens.

RichB

Sun, 2010-10-24 15:11

What is going to be done about the constant stream of boats loaded with Economic migrants, so called asylum seekers that are arriving every week, and the the so called government wants to release this lot into society as the luxury airconditioned camps are full up. Well who will pay for all of this the tax payer of course. As if life in Australia isnt expensive enough for every Australian already without having to fork out for these scroungers..Is every Australian rich enough to be able to pay for this lot to have a lovely life in Australia...Who wants to pay for these asylum seekers to have a better life, I dont and I wouldnt want them living near me...If that sound racist well tough Im afraid...Charity begins at home and there are plenty of Australians without food or shelter...If anyone believes that this government doesnt have some ulterior motive as to why they are bringing all these asylum seekers here then they need to really wake up soon..

quark

Sun, 2010-10-24 13:59

I have not heard the Committee for Melbourne advocating or campaigning to cut population growth in order to reach a population of 8 million people rather than 9 or 11 million by 2060 and since, if the real Andrew McLeod is indeed here on this site it appears he knows growth needs to be cut for 8 million to be a correct figure. If this is the real Andrew McLeod he should say this instead of talking about a measly 8 million. At 2% p.a growth Melbourne will be 8 million in fact by 2045 and 16 million by 2080. I only heard Kevin Rudd once saying that we would need to cut growth rates in order to have a national population of 36 million by mid century. That was in the aftermath of his "Big Australia" gaff. No- we are being softened up with lower numbers than we are really headed for, and then we will be told they all came early just as for Melbourne 2030. Those extra million people will be here a decade early! Surprise surprise! Not to confuse Committee for Melbourne with government, but when they make an utterance, it makes news as though they were some authority or indeed in charge of the place.

Milly

Sun, 2010-10-24 13:40

A Melbourne man has tried to mortgage his home to defend his daughter who has been charged for the "crime" of feeding dingoes on Frazer Island. People are banned from feeding the island's dingo population after some of the animals seeking food from tourists began to attack. Surely people entering wildlife territory should be on the alert, not allow the animals to starve to protect visitors! Wildlife photographer Jennifer Parkhurst is facing massive fines and years behind bars, charged with 44 offences relating to alleged contact with the pack of pedigree wild dogs. Animal lovers have been concerned that Australia's last pocket of pure-blood dingoes on Fraser Island were starving. It is embarrassing for the Queensland Government that one of their own rangers had been sacked for feeding a sick dingo. Due to tourism taking over the island, food resources have become more scarce. Jennifer Parkhurst is facing fines of up to $300,000 or several years in jail if the charges against her are proved. If someone were to starve to death dogs or cats or livestock, the RSPCA could quite rightly charge them with animal cruelty. Our landscape has been altered and impacted by human populations and structures that wildlife are finding it increasingly hard to survive. As the perpetrators, it is cruel and not natural to deny them food! Tourists, quite rightly, should not be able to feed dingoes, but at the same time, they should not be allowed to starve! Fraser Island Defenders Organisation (FIDO), Nationals Parks Association Queensland and the Wilderness Society, said claims that dingoes were starving were false and ill-informed. Read more: http://www.news.com.au/fraser-island-dingoes-not-starving-after-all-desp... Honorary secretary of FIDO says that dingo hierarchy dictated that alpha males and females were the best fed while the weakest animals would go hungry. The dogs were also leaner at different times of the year. "Some animal lovers just can't abide animals being thin," Mr Sinclair. These dingoes are the responsibility of the national parks and if they are in such poor condition, food supply would be limited. They say its the natural way but its not. If dingoes were living naturally, there would be fish on the shores, no fences, roads, plenty of prey and water. The Department of Environment and Resource Management allege the wildlife photographer and Save Fraser Island Dingoes Association member "interfered" with and fed dingoes on the World Heritage listed sand island over a 13-month period. If found guilty she faces fines of up to $300,000 or two years’ imprisonment. Ms Parkhurst has won widespread support from wildlife groups, Aboriginal elders, Noosa locals, and civil libertarians.

BeattyO (not verified)

Sun, 2010-10-24 12:42

The so-called skills shortage Australia is claimed and claiming to have, is a farce! Ask industry employers about skills shortages in their industry, and they might mention the lack of 'good' and experienced tradespeople and the turnover rates of some occupations. Well to fill those shortages it would mean them being filled with people who fit the above criteria, yeah - not needing foreign nationals to take up beginner positions! By far. There are plenty of unemployed Australian residents, many of which have been born in Australia, who have accessed Tafe and university institutions yet don't find employment. Even offering employment to international students above the preference of local students and graduates is no guarantee to them staying in the industry of which they've studied. They just choose a course from 'The List'; the skills shortages list provided by the Dept of Immigration. In trades, an apprenticeship needs to be undertaken and finished to become qualified for a Trade Certificate. What internationals study are not apprenticeships, as they are private students. The latter don't fill qualified-level positions and cannot and shouldn't. Locals should be given jobs and supported in this by partnerships with employers and even government. And there is the correlation between new migrants taking locals' jobs, and tightening the local job market with them taking labour, delivery, hospitality, taxi and retail jobs as well as professional entry-level jobs. There should not be 'beyond-border' competition for jobs. In other countries, you'd struggle to find proper jobs without being a national of that country! And here? They're even advertising Australia as almost a country of drongos who don't want to work or have a low population count. What an offence to our predecessors who've gotten employment with only locals, not foreigners giving them jobs and pay! Why employ them? Have some nationalism!!!

Geoffrey Taylor

Sun, 2010-10-24 11:39

Thanks, John Marlowe for, such an interesting and well thought out article. Those, who label views, in favour of the defence of economic and cultural rights for native Australians, racist, should consider the words of Paul Craig Roberts, in his article "Truth has fallen and has taken Liberty with it" (originally published earlier on Information Clearing House and also published here):
“Free market economists” are paid to sell offshoring to the American people. High-productivity, high value-added American jobs are denigrated as dirty, old industrial jobs. Relics from long ago, we are best shed of them.
Paul Craig Roberts is also an outspoken opponent of US wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. He tells the truth about the principle pretext for those wars, that is that the September 11 atrocity was carried out by terrorists operating from sanctuaries in Afghanistan. How can it be that such a nationalist as Roberts is prepared to tell the truth about the lie used to justify the US's and Australia's current wars, whilst Australia's militant and outspoken "anti-racists", for example the publishers of The Green Left Review are silent about it, and, in particular, the recent attempted persecution of Victoria MUA secretary Kevin Bracken? If you don't believe me, check out Green-Left Weekly yourself. Try searching it, using search, using the term "Bracken". Of course, there are stories avout Bracken's past record as an official of the MUA, but nothing about the current attacks on Bracken. --- BTW, Paul Craig Roberts, who can far more justifiably claim to be 'anti-racist' than the phoney revolutionaries discussed above has the most unlikely past of having been Assistant Secretary of the Treasury during President Reagan’s first term and of having been Associate Editor of the Wall Street Journal. Of course, he now repudiates his past service to the awful Reagan regime.

nimby

Sun, 2010-10-24 10:15

Skyrocketing unemployment rates among Victoria’s youth are being ignored by the Brumby Government. Latest figures from the Australian Bureau of Statistics showed the average unemployment rate among Victorians aged between 15 and 19 had increased by 27.5 per cent from 2008 to 2009. Victoria has the highest youth unemployment in Australia is not a record to be proud of. According to an article written by Paul Bird, Mission Australia’s Victorian state director which recently appeared in The Age, the region bounded by the suburbs of Brunswick, Sunbury and Kalkallo 55% of 15 – 19 year olds are not in full time work or education. That wasn’t a typo, YES……. 55% Youth unemployment is 28% across Victoria – the worst in the Australia. Politicians and media focus on Australia's ability or luck in avoiding the ravages of the global financial meltdown. Little is mentioned of population growing faster than jobs, or the outsourced and privatized public services that previously provided a large number of skill training schemes and apprenticeships to our youth, and on-going employment. Many manufacturing industries have gone overseas too. It's the casual, part-time and lower skilled jobs in the labour market - the type of jobs young people rely on - that are first to go and the last to return. These jobs have been largely taken by flexible and compliant international students. To boost our numbers further, people overseas are still being invited to come to live in Victoria due to our "skills shortages" despite our record youth unemployment! Our political leaders would rather bypass our own youth, and new arrivals, and employ already trained and educated foreigners instead! Globalism is the economics of treason, while increasing our "cultural diversity" is an intellectual scam put to justify mass immigration. Australia has a major neurosis concerning the topic of bulk immigration. That means that public debate is more an expression of national hang-ups - magnanimous humanitarianism, racism, xenophobia, new-age ideologies - than an expression of rational thought. It ensures that debate about feral immigration is ill-informed, unpatriotic, self depreciating and hypocritical.

James Sinnamon

Sun, 2010-10-24 07:41

Thank you, immensely, Sheila Newman for having taken the trouble to write this excellent review and for having let me know about the book beforehand. (The rest is adapted from an e-mail I sent to a visitor who expressed an interest in buying "Back from the Brink"). I can also thoroughly recommend the book. It seems to me that Peter Andrews has discovered a simple and effective means that, if applied systematically, will prevent us from turning Australia into a desert continent and may still make it possible to turn this country back into a moist and fertile land. If an unexpected change in personal circumstances had not prevented me from standing as a candidate in the recent Federal elections, and being more active at the time, I would have used the occasion to ask as many other candidates as I could (Greens, Labor, National, Liberal) why they weren't pushing hard for the adoption of Peter Andrews' ideas.

Sheila Newman

Sun, 2010-10-24 02:12

Maggie, There is a clickable link to Amazon.com in the article, but you can also buy the book in many other places. Just ring up your local bookstore and order it.

anon (not verified)

Sat, 2010-10-23 17:03

The "students" who assaulted and raped a woman in Oakleigh, Melbourne, have logically committed a "racist" crime for attacking a non-Indian woman. They escaped back to India to avoid being arrested. However, this accusation will not be levelled at them because apparently only "white" people are capable of racism! It would be "racist" if our Australian and Indian governments ignore this crime in the name of "peace" between India and Australia! Similarly, ridiculing blonde women or red-headed people is accepted as funny and fair game, but painting black faces on entertainers is "racist"!

Beatrice (not verified)

Sat, 2010-10-23 13:55

I went for a job recently, to work in the trade I have been studying for, and the employer said that he prefers to employ only "international students" - from India!

John Marlowe

Sat, 2010-10-23 13:44

Laboral* invitation of hoards of foreign populations from contra-cultural societies is directly displacing the lesser numbers of traditional Australians (those born here and with traditional ancestral origins in Australia). It is a repeat of British colonisation of Australia that directly displaced Australia's Aboriginal people.

History regurgitated!

The Laboral policy of immigrant favouritism is Reverse Racism. It is discriminatory against local people and our traditional way of life. It is cultural treason. Then when an immigrant gets into a position of influence (management, politics) favouritism to the immigrant's countrymen and women is ignored by Australia's anti-discrimination laws.

One rule for immigrants, another rule to traditional Australians who are targeted by the these laws as if we are inherently racist. By favouritising and excluding immigrants, Australia's supposed anti-discrimination laws are passive reverse racism.

The tragedy is that the unjust discrimination felt by traditional Australians is causing legitimate disaffection. That disaffection and sense of injustice is steadily converting tolerant easy-going Australians, like myself, into angry resentful protectionists. The vocal outrage is perceived as racist, but it is an early cry for help. Cronulla in 2005 was a warning to governments. Heed it and curb the immigration and listen to us locals!

*'Laboral' is the hybridisation of the Liberal Party and Labor Party, so closely aligned ideologically at the Centre-Right that they factions of the same quasi-coalition, taking alternate turns of governing at Federal and State level.

James Sinnamon

Sat, 2010-10-23 11:22

Thanks Tim, for reminding us of only some of the harm that former Australian Prime Minister John Howard was able to inflict upon us between 1996 and 2009 largely because of his gift for avoiding public scrutiny of his policies. On Monday night he is a guest on Q&A, the episode of which has been misnamed "Adventures in Democracy". If democracy means rule according to the will and welfare of the majority, Howard's period in government was anything but democratic. In this show, questions by members of the public, recorded on video. are put to the guest,. So, to have any input into the show, you need your own video, camera and a good Internet connection. It is my understanding, although I haven't been able to obtain confirmation on the Q&A site, that all submitted videos are stored on the Q&A site, even if only a few can be used in the program. Let's hope the public, with video cameras, and the program producers, don't allow this very dark period in Australian history to be whitewashed.

Bandicoot

Sat, 2010-10-23 08:28

Reform for Melbourne should focus on the need to protect the interests of residents and businesses that their suburbs will not be subject to excessive upheaval, and we will be protected from uncontrolled wholesale redevelopment for self-serving reasons, by greedy developers in collusion with our political elites. The Committee for Melbourne describes an 8 million population for Melbourne as part of ''normal growth''. It is clear that most residents are against our a population blow-out, yet business keeps pressing for more. It's not just a matter of "planning' and adequate infrastructure, which must be funded by the public purse, but protecting our suburbs, our lifestyles, our green wedges, our environment, our water supply and our community. We have everything to lose and nothing to gain by further population growth. If, as Andrew McLeod would have us believe people love living in dense Melbourne suburbs and highrise apartments, why are they turning up in droves many kilometres from Melbourne in the south east growth corridor seeking accommodation and services which the local council cannot provide fast enough? High rise and high density apartments are not suitable for families, and most prefer outer wastelands without transport or facilities. The "Committee of Melbourne" is a total misnomer, it should be correctly known as "Committee for big profits for big business in Melbourne". There is not one hint of concern for what the average Melbourne resident thinks or wants, unless it improves the bottom line of the big business members of the Committee For Profits for Big business in Melbourne. Committee for Melbourne head Andrew MacLeod tells us that this ban on nuclear doesn't make sense if Melbourne is going to grow to 8 million by 2060! Australians don't want nuclear power! Andrew Macleod believes that can you have a big Australia and a sustainable Australia as well! You know, if you look at countries that have a similar land mass as Australia - China, United States, Brazil - who are all more or less around about the same size as Australia, their populations are many, many, many times larger than Australia's so we have not really defined what we mean by big.....It is why we are so scared that the no-growth debate will win the public discourse because that is the most dangerous thing for the future for our country. China, Brazil, United States are all overpopulated and are suffering from poverty. This is what we need to avoid. Interview The World Today

Sheila Newman

Sat, 2010-10-23 02:52

I think the observation at the end of the above post,

"We should take an example from Haiti - where population growth has endangered the nation through consumption of flora and fauna, and thus vulnerable to Nature's extremities,"

is unintentionally ironic.

Sadly it would seem that the Victorian Colonial Raj does take its example from Haiti. I really do not believe that they intend to stop before there is nothing left. Victoria and Australia could easily become like Haiti within ten years at the rate of immigration that is being forced on us. No water, no housing, huge unemployment, and very low wages. Forests chopped down, schools and universities too expensive for the poor, and foreign ownership of most land and resources.

pulpwood (not verified)

Sat, 2010-10-23 01:32

Co-Owner of Out of Africa Safaris lives in Autaugaville, Alabama, USA. His name is Yanaman Groenewald. Ironically, he has a personalized tag which says "ProHunt". He seems to enjoy days of golfing...still showing his face. What a shame that people become filled with such greed that they have to butcher innocent animals to enhance their already very comfortable lifestyles. May God have mercy on all involved. If there is a such thing as Rhino hell, these offender will surely occumpany them one day. What a shame! There are reports of his wife and father in-law being involved in the Rhino butcherings. The father-n-law is the owner of a gun shop in Autaugaville, Alabama. There is an entire room of legal and illegal mounts in the father-n-law's "trophy room". Someone needs to investigate the involvment of US citizens in the killings. There are many participants in the Rhino Deaths. May they all face justice!!

Sheila Newman

Sat, 2010-10-23 01:05

The GMG should also pressure the receiving nations to provide adequate citizens' rights, so that they have the ability to self govern, instead of being dictated to by commercial lobby groups that want big populations. Sheila Newman, population sociologist home page Articles Copyright to the author. Please contact sheila [AT] candobetter org or the editor if you wish to make substantial reproduction or repu

CSI (not verified)

Sat, 2010-10-23 00:35

1.4%, 1.65%, 2.2%, even much lower rates under 1%, they all get you to the same place eventually (massive overpopulation), it just takes a little while longer (and not that much longer really). At some point all population growth will cease, in Melbourne and Australia in general. Cease entirely. Not just low growth or "sustainable growth", a complete cessation of population growth followed by a gradual decline in population until stabilization occurs. It is absolutely inevitable and will almost certainly before the end of this century.

John Marlowe

Sat, 2010-10-23 00:33

Andrew, there's plenty of room for more Melbourne immigrants - drain Port Phillip Bay and invite the Israeli bulldozers over to do a bit of land filling and construction! Swan Island could be the site of a new Westfield to cash in on the new dwellings, but the Queenscliff Golf Course would have to go!

John Marlowe

Sat, 2010-10-23 00:29

Now here's a good one: Melbourne remains one of the world’s most liveable cities"ranked third in the Economist Intelligence Unit’s (EIU) latest liveability survey" in February 2010.

"Australian cities dominated the rankings with four cities inside the top ten. Melbourne remains the most liveable city in Australia with a score of 97.5 out of 100, topping Sydney in seventh place and Perth and Adelaide at equal eighth.

Melbourne was also the highest ranked city in the Asia-Pacific, reinforcing why it is a great place to live and do business in the region.

Vancouver, Canada, home of the Winter Olympics, ranked first and Vienna, Austria came in second place. Toronto (4), Calgary (5), Finland (6) and Auckland (10) rounded out the top ten, while Zimbabwe’s capital Harare was ranked last.

The EIU’s Liveability Ranking, part of the Worldwide Cost of Living Survey, assesses living conditions in 140 cities around the world by assigning a rating across five broad categories of stability, healthcare, culture and environment, education and infrastructure.

Melbourne achieved perfect scores in the areas of healthcare, education and infrastructure, according to the survey."

[Source: Victorian Government reference to the US Economic Intelligence Unit - a reliable source?]

democracy-fan (not verified)

Sat, 2010-10-23 00:23

According to John Bursill: 'For the record on the 28th of March 2008 the Victorian Trades Hall Council passed this motion after lengthy debate supporting a thorough and independent inquiry of the terrorist attacks on 9/11. From the minutes of the meeting on the 28th of March 2008; “That this meeting of VTHC Executive Council calls for a thorough, independent enquiry into the tragic terrorist attacks of September 11. The events of that day have been used to start pre-emptive wars “that will not end in our lifetime”. They have been used to attack civil liberties and legal principles that have been the cornerstone of civilized communities. There is an urgent need to reassess the way we view the world after September 11 and we call for proper investigation into the events around that day.”' Also, I see that the votes supporting Kevin Bracken's statements as reasonable are running at 66.67% now on the Herald Sun poll - at 0017hrs on 23-10-2010, with 7718 votes. Pretty amazing how wrong Faine and the PM seem to have got the public mood ... again.

John Marlowe

Sat, 2010-10-23 00:15

'Racist', discrimination' and 'xenophobic' are convenient cowardly invasion labels used to attack and silence locals who are standing up for their local way of life.

I just returned from visiting the Middle East, where I was careful to respect the local customs - do in Rome...

I'd like to see a secular Australian try immigrating to a strongly religious country and publicly imposing a secular liberal culture on the local populous - to try to get the government to change laws to recognise the rights of sectarian, modern western ideas and values! Good bloody luck!

Tolerant Australians being tolerant of foreigners who choose to impose their will and way are only letting Australian values erode to a lower standard. Foreigners arriving in droves and rejecting Australian customs, language, values and critical of the cultural sensitivities of locals are unwelcome invaders.

Change management is a real human issue to all involved. It took the Greeks and Italians three generations to assimilate into the Australian culture and now they are integrated and accepted.

What is despicable is that Aboriginal Australians are more marginalised than immigrants.

When in Australia, assimilate don't aggravate!

John Marlowe

Fri, 2010-10-22 23:46

Less people in a world of human excess would be bliss, and dare I say more 'sustainable' probably.

No country needs immigrants. Immigrants aspire a better life and wealthier countries offer it - simple. But to make the world more 'equal' is not solved by shifting high birth rates from undeveloped countries to developed countries, it is to improve the lot of those in undeveloped countries by addressing poverty and rewarding lower birth rates with a better quality of life.

Human quality of life is not found by communal sharing "allowing poorer nations to have access to their land, culture, social security benefits and housing" - show where communal sharing has worked in hunan history?

Migration from undeveloped countries to developed countries, avoids the cause of the problem driving the migration. Worse, its shifts problems to developed countries. The quagmire of human misery is moved around instead of it being resolved. Migration is social problem avoidance on a international scale.

Ahead if seeking human equality, is the more fundamental priority of maintaining basic life needs and human rights. Indeed, the UN is a failed organisation with a broken record of 'do as I say, not as I do' - Somalia, Ethiopia, Rwanda, Bosnia, Sri Lanka, Congo, etc. And from where are the bulk of migrants fleeing?

"As details emerged this week of the U.N.'s knowledge of rebel activity in the villages where nearly 200 women were systematically gang raped by armed groups in the eastern Democratic Republic of the Congo (DRC) late last month, human rights groups are demanding an investigation into the U.N.'s failure to prevent the raid from occurring. "These scandalous, outrageous atrocities should serve as a wake up call for the international community," Marcel Stoessel, Oxfam International's country director in the DRC, told IPS in a phone interview."

[Source: D.R. Congo: Outrage grows over UN failure to protect civilians]

If you want to get closer to the truth on human rights, don't listen to the UNHCR, listen to Amnesty International.

Strategic invasive desires of wealthy and unethical countries like the USA and Israel continue to cause similar migration pressures from Iraq, Afghanistan, Lebanon.

Human problems must be addressed in the countries of origin, not be used as the driver of mass refugee problems impacting on other countries.

Andrew Macleod (not verified)

Fri, 2010-10-22 15:45

Subject was: "population growth rates" The Committee for Melbourne is not promoting ‘fast’ or ‘excessive’ growth. Consider the following: GROWTH RATES Melbourne’s growth rate from 1860 (half a million) to now (4 million): Growth rate 1.4% Melbourne’s growth rate from 1960 (1.85 million) to now 4 million. Growth rate 1.65% If Melbourne continued historic rates of growth, what would its population be in 2060? 1.4% growth: (200 year average Committee for Melbourne) 8 million 1.5% growth: (Gillard/Abbott) 8.42 million 1.65% growth: (the fifty year average) 9.07 million 1.7% growth: (Brumby/Bailleu option) 9.29 million 2.2% growth: (last year’s spike) 11.87 million

Andrew MacLeod (not verified)

Fri, 2010-10-22 14:44

If you would rather I not come just let me know.. In the interests of discussion perhaps listening to an argument before making a judgement would benefit open and honest dialogue. I am not at all interested i being part of a witch hunt. I am interested in open and honest dialogue. I am not a 'growth pusher' or a 'lobbyist'. My profile is here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_MacLeod I would be grateful if the organisers would contact me as after reading the comments I have severe reservations about the event.

nimby

Fri, 2010-10-22 09:32

An Arizona-style immigration law gives police and deputies more authority to check the registry of people they suspect are in the country or state illegally. Current Arizona state law, which Colorado and Florida are also considering adopting, gives state officers the authority to check the immigration status of a suspected alien during the course of other business. Opponents of the legislation cite the law's infringement of the 4th and 14th amendments, two important American civil rights statutes. The architect of Arizona's immigration law, SB2070, announced a new crusade to correct what he perceives as an unfortunate misinterpretation of the 14th Amendment that allows children of illegal immigrant parents to be considered U.S. citizens if they're born on U.S. soil. As Arizona borders Mexico, and considering it has struggled with controlling immigration for years, the many legal Mexican immigrants need to always be ready with their paperwork. A report issued september by a United Nations agency appears to be a thinly veiled critique of Arizona’s immigration law, one that equates its supporters with “xenophobes and racists.” The Global Migration Group (GMG) adopted its statement on the “Human Rights of Migrants in Irregular Situation” — that is, illegal aliens — earlier in Geneva. It condemned unnamed nations for viewing illegal immigrants “through the lens of sovereignty, border security or law enforcement, sometimes driven by hostile domestic constituencies,” and demanded governments instead grant illegals “economic, social, and cultural rights,” including “reproductive healthcare.” The UN is instrumental is trying to blur national and state borders and over-ride nation sovereignty in their agenda to push for a unified world government, a planet with no borders, and support the sharing of sovereign "rights" to illegal migrants from overpopulated developing nations. The drain on public resources, the loss of national identity, and taxpayers funds needed to accommodate these aliens is over-looked. "The GMG .... calls on States, civil society, the private sector, the media and host communities to address the demand side of trafficking and exploitation, to work actively to combat xenophobia, racism and incitement to discrimination in national politics and in public discourse, to protect all migrants, as well as to actively promote tolerant societies in which every person can enjoy his or her human rights, regardless of migration status". The GMG should pressure the SOURCE nations to provide adequate human rights, and health and reproductive advice to their citizens, not outsource this responsibility to other nations -HOST nations to alien immigrants! The UN are more interesting homogenising our planet's populations than finding solutions. Surely PC (political correctness) has gone too far?

James Sinnamon

Fri, 2010-10-22 01:00

Originally published:

21 Oct 2010

I was appalled to listen to Jon Faine's treatment of Kevin Bracken, yesterday on his radio 'talkback' show.

In spite of the treatment of those who question the official version of September 11 and hence the justification for the war against Afghanistan, which our Prime Minster now wants to last until 2020, that is, 19 years after the terrorist outrage was allegedly committed against US citizens with the collusion of the Government then, according to one recent online poll on the Herald-Sun, 46% of the Australian public agrees with the "conspracy nutter" Kevin Bracken of whom John Faine was so contemptuous.

Who does Faine, whose salary is paid for by the public, believe he is to be so unfairly dismissive of opinions which differ from his own? Anyone who thinks that Faine's treatment of Bracken, the Victorian Branch Secretary of the Maritime Union of Australia and the President of the Victorian Trades Hall Council, was fair and reasonable, should read for themselves the dialogue between Bracken and Faine as published on the PM web site:

KEVIN BRACKEN: Well I believe that the official story is a conspiracy theory that doesn't stand up to scientific scrutiny.

JON FAINE: Are you serious? Is this a hoax or are you serious?

KEVIN BRACKEN: No and I'd love to debate you publicly Jon if you think it's ridiculous.

JON FAINE: There's nothing to debate Kevin.

KEVIN BRACKEN: I challenge you to a public debate.

JON FAINE: There's nothing to debate.

KEVIN BRACKEN: Well the fact is that aviation fuel doesn't get hot enough to melt steel.

SAMANTHA DONOVAN: Jon Faine pressed Mr Bracken on which "nutter theory" he subscribes to.

KEVIN BRACKEN: In my mind the buildings were imploded.

JON FAINE: Yeah and you're the Secretary of the Maritime Union and you're on the Trades Hall Council Executive?

KEVIN BRACKEN: I'm the president of the Victorian Trades Hall Council and we've taken resolutions from both those…

JON FAINE: I think it reflects very poorly on your members Kevin that you have views that are so ridiculous, so extreme and so unacceptable and yet you hold office in some of our unions in Victoria.

KEVIN BRACKEN: I'd love to... if it's so ridiculous Jon I challenge you to debate me on it.

JON FAINE: It is; unequivocally.

KEVIN BRACKEN: The trouble is mate, blokes like you are keeping most of the people in the dark.

Note, which of the two tried to discuss the facts and which resorted to ad hominem dismissal of the views he disagreed with.

Contrary to what Faine claimed and in support of what 46% of Australians and much of world opinion believe, there is a great deal about the official account of the September 11 outrage which is open to debate by reasonable people. John Faine, who is, apparently, a lawyer, needs to explain to his listeners why he thinks that not one person has been captured or tried for mass murder with a proven link to 9/11, the Bali bombings, 7.7, the Madrid train bombings and other outrages, despite nine years of military occupation of Afghanistan.

Update 22 October: Jon Faine's poor treatment of Kevin Bracken, for daring to question the justification for bloody wars that have cost well over a million lives, and which have impoverished millions more since 2001, has created, an enormous public reaction against this attempt to stifle free debate. Most recently, Jon Fain has attempted to depict himself as having been the unjust target of persecution by "conspiracy theorists" in an attempt to win back public sympathy. (See story "9/11 conspiracy theorists swamping talkback: Faine" which did include embedded video of Jon Faine 'defending' himself.)

Milly

Thu, 2010-10-21 18:50

A rapid increase in lone person households will result in 1.7M more Australians living by themselves in 20 years, the Australian Bureau of Statistics has projected. Couples without children are set to overtake the nuclear family as the most common family household within three years. As the number of households reaches 11.8 million in 2031, lone person households will surge by 91%. Couples with children are the dominant family household now but by 2031, if trends are maintained, they will drop to 2.5 million as the number of couples living without children rises to 3.8 million. ''Mum, dad and the kids are down to one household in five. Over 50 years the shift has been quite profound,'' said KPMG demographer Bernard Salt. The rise in single-person households was being driven by an ageing population, said Mr Salt. ''These are not young, sexy singles, but sad, lonely old baby boomers. The widowed, separated and divorced.'' Mr Salt said he doubts whether Australian cities are ''ready for an army of single old people living in suburbia disconnected from the community''. Social isolation and depression issues would need to be tackled, as would Australia's focus on the quarter-acre block. However, the forecast might not be borne out. The fertility rate in Australia has recently leapt again and now stands at 1.9 per cent, which was relatively high. A steady decline in marriage, an increase in cohabitation and ''spectacular'' increases in divorce rates since the 1960s had created a much larger pool of single people with more fluid living arrangements. Living alone was often short term, as people transitioned between relationships or left marriages. ''Financially, people are more able to live alone than in the past. Community attitudes have changed. Rapidly changing social expectations are starkly seen in the living arrangements of 25 to 29-year-olds. In 1991, a third (34 per cent) of this age group lived as a couple with children, but this is set to fall to 7 per cent by 2031. And the bureau predicts almost a third of 25 to 29-year-olds will still be living with their parents by 2031. The decline in women under 30 having children contributed to this age group staying longer in the parental home. Leaving home is not just a one-off any more. If their job doesn't work out, or relationship doesn't work out, they go home again. The ABS projections assume that the rate of change the bureau observed in household types between 1991 and 2006 continues. Research has also shown more young Australians were interested in marriage again. The end of the traditional family is not in sight. In terms of people's attitudes, they still see marriage as the way to go. Source: APN Maybe the "lonely" singles aren't so sad or lonely. Maybe the rise of single households is also due to family homes, and families, being unaffordable. "Demographer" Bernard Salt seems to be tying to fulfill his own prophesies, for the convenience of the growthist who employ him. Owning land and a house is becoming out of reach for many people, a "dream" that has turned into a nightmare. Young people staying at home is becoming more common due to them being locked out of home ownership.

Beatice (not verified)

Thu, 2010-10-21 16:37

Subject was: "UN push for immigration to developed nations" United Nations projections indicate that over the next 50 years, the populations of virtually all countries of Europe as well as Japan will face population decline and population ageing. Their report on ageing populations considers replacement migration for eight low-fertility countries (France, Germany, Italy, Japan, Republic of Korea, Russian Federation, United Kingdom and United States) and two regions (Europe and the European Union). They claim that "here can be no doubt that European societies need immigrants. Europeans are living longer and having fewer children. Without immigration, the population of the soon-to-be twenty-five Member States of the EU will drop, from about 450 million now to under 400 million in 2050". In today’s unequal world, vast numbers of Asians and Africans lack the opportunities for self-improvement that most Europeans take for granted. It is not surprising that many of them see Europe as a land of opportunity, in which they long to begin a new life – just as the potential of the new world once attracted tens of millions of impoverished but enterprising Europeans. Managing migration is not only a matter of opening doors and joining hands internationally - enforcing their "one world" agenda. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon this week warned Europe against a new ‘politics of polarization,’ discrimination and intolerance over immigration, with Muslim immigrants as primary targets, as he delivered major addresses before two of the continent’s leading bodies. He made an impassioned call for Europe to seize the "opportunities" (my emphasis) presented by immigration and to resist those who demonized these newcomers as ‘the other.’ So, nations that have become wealthy and are not over-populated and have people successfully living long lives are to avail themselves to the "opportunities" presented to them by allowing poorer nations to have access to their land, culture, social security benefits and housing etc. It is not "us" and "them" but a level, global playing field?

Bandicoot

Thu, 2010-10-21 15:47

Turkish President Abdullah Gul accused European politicians and intellectuals of lacking vision about Turkey joining the European Union. Turkey last Wednesday demanded German support for its European Union membership. Germany, which has 3.5 million immigrants of Turkish origin, has until now argued for Turkey to be given a 'privileged partnership' with the EU. All opinion polls in France indicate that French citizens are in favour of a privileged partnership with Turkey, but against the country's EU accession. France and Germany have been vocal opponents of Turkey's ambition to join the 27-nation bloc and argue that the mainly Muslim country of about 73 million people should settle for a "privileged partnership" rather than full membership. European racism is the main reason why Turkey will not be accepted into the EU, says Noam Chomsky according to Turkish newspaper. Germany is one of the European countries which has had a “rightwing backlash against Muslim immigrants” and, “It is the background reason why Turkey is unlikely to be accepted into the EU, even if it meets all the human rights standards,” said Chomsky. Eight of 35 negotiation chapters remain completely frozen due to Turkey's refusal to open its ports to EU member Cyprus. The island has been divided between its Greek and Turkish communities since 1974, when Turkey invaded the north after a Greek Cypriot coup aimed at unifying the island with Greece. Many Europeans believe that if Turkey were to become an EU member state there would be large numbers of Turks immigrating to EU. Public opinion polls indicate that 72 percent of Germans do not want to see Turkey in the EU as a full member. The Americans want Turkey in the EU for their own selfish purposes, ie military bases. The American-backed Nabucco pipeline which brings in gas from the ex-soviet republics was designed with one aim in mind - to reduce Europe's reliance on Russia for gas supplies. Turkey can not continue to keep it's airspace closed for the Cypriot planes and its ports for the Cypriot boats if they want to join the EU.

Matilda B (not verified)

Thu, 2010-10-21 15:11

Livestock and their irrigated crops are the largest squanders of water. According to ABS, in 2005-06, the agricultural commodities that used the most water in the MDB were dairy farming. In 2005-06, the dairy industry accounted for 39% of the total irrigated area of pasture in the MDB. The rice and cotton crops may be big users, but not as extensive as the dairy industry. Much of the products are exported. The dairy and livestock industries are vastly inefficient, consuming precious water, damaging the environment, and causing immense pain, suffering and death to countless innocent cows and dairy "by-products" - nearly one million bobby calves slaughtered each year! Settlers here imported their diets and livestock to emulate their their fore-bearers, and we are still on the same unsustainable track today. It has been said that changing diets is harder than changing religions. Our insistence on flavors, traditions, habits all goes beyond logic!

Sheila Newman

Thu, 2010-10-21 11:04

It is indeed problematic for a reforming organisation to give any air to these professional growth lobbyists. Unfortunately that is often the only way the feel that they may get coverage by the mainstream press, which only wants to cover elite opinions. (This is why we have candobetter.org which looks at the actions of the elites and invites anyone with an opinion of value to contribute.) I am somewhat consoled however by the fact that Kelvin Thomson will be debating one of their representatives, plus by Mary Drost's presence on the panel. This should make the forum a worthwhile and interesting event. I do sincerely hope also that this forum will not follow the usual poor lines of most forums where people who often know more than the panel and the speakers (as many in the audience will) and have more to contribute, are restricted to asking questions, rather than making statements. I would like to see people in the audience given time to stand up and give their views as well.

nimby

Thu, 2010-10-21 08:17

Residents and citizens should decide the fates and direction of their cities. Growth should not be accepted as inevitable, and it isn't. We want good designs and liveable cities made for people, not grown for the sake of growth. The Melbourne@5 million should not be assumed, and should be rejected as being politically decided for us, with community "consultation" to give the ticks! We are not Vancouver, under the heavy weight of uncontrolled immigration. The IPCC confirms that "the combined effect of increasingly severe climatic events and underlying socio-economic trends (such as population growth and unplanned urbanisation) have the potential to undermine the value of business assets, diminish investment viability and stress insurers, re-insurers, and banks to the point of impaired profitability and even insolvency". We should be down-scaling in light of climate change threats. We should be preserving the size, but increasing the quality, of our cities. The Committee of Melbourne is a private organisation with business and financial interests a "big Australia" and "big Victoria"! Their own "study" argues that we may need more desalination plants out west, paid for by the public, plus a sewerage recycling plant to produce drinking water. This is to cater for their "predicated"- or desirable - surge of population to 8 million people in Melbourne by 2060. Water will become an expensive luxury! They have hopped onto the pseudo-environmentalism bandwagon by advising us to give serious consideration to building nuclear power stations in Victoria within decade, to cope with power demands and slash greenhouse gas emissions. The biggest problem with nuclear power is the lack of a long term viable solution to storing the waste safely. Some types of nuclear waste may be take decades to break down, but high level waste will take thousands of years. Where and how would it be stored, and the risks alleviated? Where do they expect to store it? They would all become "nimbys" themselves! Anthropogenic climate change impacts would be better reduced by stabilising our population numbers and switching to renewable energy sources. The Committee of Melbourne is not in the position to make newsworthy or objective "reports"! They are merely promoting their own self-serving interests in growth.

Notsostupid (not verified)

Thu, 2010-10-21 00:47

Hello I am glad I found your website. Before I dont recognise the society I am living in the next 10 years you should read the UK Guardian to see how the government is slashing education, police and welfare, are they trying to make UK society a basketcase in a week. Do our politicians have the same idea here ? Have you seen the French

Anonymous (not verified)

Wed, 2010-10-20 23:57

The Australian reports, "JULIA Gillard has dismissed as "stupid and wrong" a senior union official's belief that the 9/11 attacks were a conspiracy but has refused to discipline him. Kevin Bracken, the Victorian secretary of the Maritime Union of Australia and Victorian Trades Hall Council president, today renewed his call for a fresh inquiry into the 9/11 attacks, claiming the "official story doesn't stand up to scientific scrutiny”." Amazing, isn't it? The Australian, the rag that promulgates unscientific nonsense about population and economics on a daily basis, suggests here that the Primeminister should 'discipline' a union official for expressing his point of view on an issue that just won't go away. What next, a horsewhipping for someone who says that economic rationalism is bulldust? And where does Gillard get off saying that what apparently 45.4 % of people answering a Herald Sun poll believe, is stupid nonsense? Ditto, who is Jon Faine, except a gatekeeper for official ideologies, to dismiss a fair comment about aviation fuel and 9/11 as too silly to debate. All I know is that there has never been a proper investigation of 9/11. So how come lawyers Jon Faine and Julia Gillard, defend that? Good on a unionist for standing up and saying that after 19 years we should get out of Afghanistan or find a better excuse than 9/11 and the so-called terrorists.

RichB

Wed, 2010-10-20 22:32

The government is euphoric on mass immigration and growth because they want to destroy the Australian culture. Exactly the same has happened in the UK...Its so clear to see surely..

John Marlowe

Wed, 2010-10-20 22:10

Why the anti immigration stigma? [Bandicoot, 20th October 2010, above comment]. Locals resenting overwhelming numbers of immigrants at times when locals are suffering is nothing about stigma or 'right wing', or 'left wing' or 'centre wing' or no bloody wing. It is about self-preservation and local birth rights. The particular country concerned is irrelevant. Immigrants find this cultural concept hard to comprehend, because they have a different sense of right having been 'officially' accepted as an immigrant. Problem is that what government endorses is not consistent with what the local people endorse - this is a global problem! Well, asylum seekers and humanitarianism aside, and a few carefully placed economic migrants from mixed origins are fine so long as they are supported in assimilating/integrating into the Australian community. But massive hoards of economic immigrants causing abrupt demand on local resources, imposing their culture, religion, language, displacing the local inhabitants - try doing that in any overseas country and see how far you would get! Massive immigration is like gate crashing - it is non-military foreigner invasion. When immigrants to any country ring fence themselves into a cluster and reject local integration, this is foreign intervention in local affairs. How can this benefit the local inhabitants? Sweden has been too tolerant for too long and the locals are biting back. I support any Geert Wilders equivalent from any nation prepared to stand up for the right of his people - be it Indians standing up for Indian rights in India, or Chinese standing up for Chinese rights in China, or Palestinians standing up for Palestinian rights in Palestine, or indeed Australians standing up for Australian rights in Australia. If I were to immigrate to Saudi Arabia, I would have to be prepared to abide by Saudi customs, laws and renounce my own where they contradict those in Saudi Arabia - else I would quickly end up in gaol. Like bio-security, local culture is an issue of human cultural security.

Bandicoot

Wed, 2010-10-20 18:03

The far-right Sweden Democrats party in Sweden seeking a 90 percent reduction in immigration won seats in Parliament for the first time, denying the ruling center-right coalition a majority and raising questions about anti-Muslim sentiment in the country. They won 20 out of 349 seats in the country's legislative body in their general election. The party wants radical curbs on immigration in Sweden, where 14 percent of the country's 9.4 million population are non-Swedes. The centre-right coalition aspiring to lead the Netherlands plans to use "unprecedented measures" to curtail the immigration of non-Western foreigners by up to 50 per cent, far- right politician Geert Wilders said Thursday in The Hague. A ban on the Islamic all-body veil, or burqa, in public buildings is also among the goals of the anti-Islam People's Party for Freedom. Geert Wilders has relentlessly pursued an anti-immigration line, asserting among other things that the cost of integrating the inflow of non-Western immigrants is a drain on the country's resources at a time of economic hardship. Nativism has become a general term for 'opposition to immigration' based on "fears that the immigrants will distort or spoil existing cultural values". This may be expressed through criticism of multiculturalism. Senator Nick Xenophon said he understood why voters in the western parts of Sydney and Brisbane may be concerned about the lifestyle implications of immigration, but he argued the problems of traffic congestion, limited housing and inadequate services were in fact the result of neglect by state and federal governments. (Actually more like lack of funds and population growth doesn't pay for itself.) He condemned Julia Gillard and Tony Abbott being willing to trash Australia's reputation for years with their "anti-immigration rhetoric". Why is there such as stigma about limiting, or stopping, immigration? Surely when our numbers are threatening our nation's social justice, living standards, finances and environmental integrity, it is quite justified to question just how many people we as a nation can comfortably support now, and for future generations? Other nations have a stringent immigration program, such as Israel and Japan. However, Sweden has been a member of the European Union since 1995, and as a EU member can not close its borders to immigrants from any other members of the EU. Japan and China prohibit immigration of black people. Muslim countries prohibit immigration of non-Muslims and South America prohibits Muslims. On the other hand, Western countries have opened their borders to everyone, including jihadists who claim to be refugees, or get-through by fake marriages. Japan takes few refugees and they don't have mass migration, but at the same time are considered irreproachable, yet westerners who question their immigration levels are treated as pariahs!

nimby

Wed, 2010-10-20 09:24

Allegations that a kangaroo or wallaby has died after being given drink at a birthday disco in Ireland are being investigated by Irish police. The marsupial was let loose among more than 150 revellers dancing at the Clarion Hotel in Liffey Valley, west Dublin, to the theme tune of Australian television show Skippy The Bush Kangaroo. The creature was believed to have been hired for the prank, which has outraged animal welfare campaigners. After the party, the animal died. An allegation that it was given alcohol is not supported by evidence at this stage. Without knowledge of our native animals, it could have easily have died from stress - myopathy! Kangaroos and wallabies should not be trusted to overseas buyers. Wallabies are classified as "exotic" animals in Ireland so there is no legislation on their breeding or ownership. Surely, the fact that they are "exotic", means that they should be regulated?

quark

Tue, 2010-10-19 23:44

This is great. I felt despondent today at a climate change environment forum at Melbourne University when no-one expressed any concern or curiosity at all regarding the fate of animals or even mass extinction.

Alisha (not verified)

Tue, 2010-10-19 17:17

Its a good article and informative. AAFNS are doing great job for environment. And the formation of AAFNS allow us to influence the future of Australia's unique flora and fauna. "Australia fauna include monotremes, marsupials and many, such as koalas, kangaroos, doiwombats, and birds such as emus, cockatoos and Kookaburra. Although most of Australia is semi arid or desert, which covers a wide range of habitats, from alpine heaths to tropical forests

Sheila Newman

Tue, 2010-10-19 14:57

19th October 2010 Today’s historic Tasmanian forest agreement shows the way that eastern Victoria’s long-running logging conflict can be solved. One of the country’s most battle-worn states has seen the logging industry, Gunns and conservation groups agree to settle the conflict in a way that will benefit everyone. “This is a courageous move by the Tasmanian industry, responding to both market demands and public opinion. It is securing a conflict free future for workers, industry and government” said Jill Redwood from Environment East Gippsland. “This is the path down which Mr Brumby should now follow and help get similar negotiations going in eastern Victoria.” “In Victoria’s west, plantations are now supplying millions of tonnes of woodchips a year. The majority of Gippsland’s forests are going into the woodchip market. The answer is clear.” “Plantation products dominate the sawn-timber market with only about 2% of native forest sawn timber being for products that can’t be substituted with pine or other products” said Ms Redwood. “These high quality feature grade timbers could still be taken from our forests at a much more sustainable rate and method than landscape clearfelling that has created so much conflict.” “There are 4 million tonnes of woodchips being produced from western Victoria now. The companies are so desperate for workers, they are even employing people from overseas.” “In East Gippsland, the overcutting of the past 30 years has almost come to a brick wall. The shortage of forests to log is forcing the Brumby government to move loggers into highly contentious areas like old growth and designated Protection Zones for rare wildlife. This is provoking more conflict. Here is a solution we should copy that will be a win-win for all”. For comment: Jill Redwood 5154 0145

Milly

Tue, 2010-10-19 13:12

German Chancellor Angela Merkel claims that multiculturalism in Germany has failed completely and implied that the onus of integration is now on those immigrants coming to the country. Naming “the demand for integration” as one of the Christian Democratic Union party's “main tasks” for the future, she emphasized learning to speak German as a priority for incoming immigrants. Merkel’s comments are likely to add momentum to a growing wave of nationalism that seems to be spreading across Europe. She has been accused of “courting” the country’s growing anti-immigration – largely anti-Muslim – sentiment. She has always tempered her remarks with calls for tolerance. Merkel seemed to have taken a strong tack to the right, devoid of the usual niceties. Western and Muslim culture will not mix peacefully, Dr Udo Ulfkotte, a German journalist told RT. “We have a clash not only of civilizations and religions, we have also a clash of ideologies.” Surely it is reasonable to ask immigrants to adapt, learn the new language and integrate? Ideologies are fine in theory, but people like to conform to their cultures and identities, and mix with their own kind. The country’s unemployment rate will drop to 7 percent in 2011 from 7.7 percent this year, the institutes said. At the same time the German government wants to tackle a growing shortage of skilled workers by tapping a pool of foreigners unable to practise their professions because their credentials are not recognised, a minister said. Why not improve educational opportunities within their own country? Sounds like Australia's "skills shortages" where employers only want to pay what they want for the already skilled from overseas.

James Sinnamon

Tue, 2010-10-19 08:25

John, This observation is mostly spot on. However, it seems to have the unintended consequence of confusing the relatively powerless who have been largely duped by the propaganda of the 'growth' pushers with the 'growth' pushers themselves. Consumers, not just corporate executives, who believe that they are wealthier, because they can renew their cars every few years, haven't grasped the objective fact that they are materially no better off than if than if they drove cars that were built to last decades and were maintainable and had standardised long-lasting parts. As vehicles built early last century can still be run by skilled mechanics I see no reason why a car can't be built to last well over a hundred years instead of just 5 years if the technical knowledge available were properly applied. No doubt this would have affected the 'profitability' of many of the companies operating under today's seriously flawed business model, but as a society, we would be far wealthier by having avoided so much destruction of our natural capital. I believe that the reason that we have not made the changes as a society that would have allowed us to have the benefit of modern technology without the cost having been anywhere near as great to our environment is that it suits the greed of the minority of 'growth' pushers that manufacture has been made so wasteful of natural resources and human labour. The "excess consumerism per capita" is of no objective benefit to the vast majority of society and certainly not to their descendents. Of even less benefit is the human overpopulation being imposed upon us by the elites in order that they can satisfy their rapacious greed through the consequent 'growth'. I think this is an argument we can win before the majority of society if we show determination and clear thinking.

John Marlowe

Mon, 2010-10-18 22:13

'Economic Growth' is someone wanting more. It is not the noble essential desire of providing for one's family. It is a selfish greed that seeks far more, reaps more and profits more in order to acquire excess assets and typically at triple bottom line expense - i.e. short changing those providing the labour (society) and exploiting the natural environment below its replaceable value. Growth has become an addiction that feeds consumerism. It is not just human overpopulation that is driving socio-ecological destruction, but human overpopulation coupled with excess consumerism per capita are accelerating the destructive drive. Economic growth is 'economic lust' - it is a behavioural addiction blinded by self-centred gratification. The corporate culture of renewing company cars every two or three years is the epitome of economic lust.

nimby

Mon, 2010-10-18 20:18

From: Julianne Bell Secretary, Protectors of Public Lands Victoria Inc Event: "The Great Essendon Planning Debate" Meet Candidates for the State Seat of Essendon including current Planning Minister Justin Madden. (It is not known then if he will attend but irrespective of this we must be there.) Time: 2 pm to 4 pm Date: Saturday 6 November 2010 Where: The Ukrainian Hall, 3 - 11 Russell Street Essendon. (Opposite the Essendon Railway Station and off Mt Alexander Road and Buckley Street.) Transport: Melways Map 28 G4. Tram No 59. Rail Craigieburn Line. Parking - Not known, presumably in surrounding streets.

James Sinnamon

Mon, 2010-10-18 19:59

For some time now I have made a point of placing the term 'growth', as referred to by establishment economists, inside inverted commas, in order to make the point that what they claim to be 'growth' is nothing of the sort. 'Growth' is quantified by economists by fictitious measures such as the Gross Domestic Product (GDP). The GDP fails to measure the true increase in the costs of living, the increases in the cost of housing, the necessity added in recent decades of more than one car being required per family, and hidden increases in charges for government and corporate services being the most blatant examples. So it can't possibly be used as a true measure of changes to the quality of life of people. Even if we were to adopt a far less fraudulent measure than the GDP, the amount of actual growth of the human global economy that such a meaure would indicate, could not anywhere near match the destruction in natural capital that it necessitates. Even if it were possible, using such a more honest measure, to claim that the quality of life were improving for humans on average (which I very much doubt) if that improvement is only gained as a result of the destruction of natural capital -- biodiversity, fossil fuel, fertile soil, metal ores, etc., then it cannot be honestly called termed 'growth'.

admin

Mon, 2010-10-18 13:28

Corporate newsmedia could not possibly be nearly as effective as it is in misleading public opinion, if it were not for the lameness of most supposedly critical alternative viewpoints. The lack of contrast between the so-called 'alternative media' views and those promulgated by the mainstream press means that normally critical-minded people are not able to see the corporate media to be as malevolent as it is. In the past many alternative left-wing groups challenged vested interests far more effectively than they do today. Today the alternative media, without any exception that I can bring to mind, are so lame that it is hard to not wonder if they have been deliberately made so by people in control of them. The language style of the 'alternative media' seems to convey anger and indignation at injustice. Since they never offer practical solutions for ordinary people, however, the only people they can hope to influence are those small minorities on the 'far-left'. The 'far-left', even where it appears to genuinely believe in its own stated goals, acts as if it is resigned to remaining marginal and unable to positively influence the course of events and quality of life of all but a few token representatives of the most marginalised, such as 'boat people' asylum seekers, for instance. This is not said to detract from the cause of asylum seekers, but to point out how inneffectual the far-left seems to prefer to remain in almost every other cause. It would be a mistake to quietly accept censorship by corporate or government newsmedia. I agree that most letter-writing to newspapers is a waste of time, considering the amount of work and number of efforts required to crack publication. With regard to corporate newsmedia's electronic blogs including spaces made available for critical feedback, in some of these cases, publication is near to guaranteed. Where publication is likely, I see no reason not to use them. There is however every reason to send the same comments to candobetter as well. If the corporate newsmedia also publishes them, then the message, insofar as it counterbalances corporate disinformation, will have been even more effectively made. If not, then at least readers of candobetter will be able to appreciate candobetter's value even more. Whatever, we must not allow the corporate media to quietly get away with censoring critical opinion in their publications, when they choose to do so (as the ABC now openly seems to). Where the corporate and public media are shown to be afraid to allow critical opinions to be published, then many of the public will most likely ask themselves why they fear critical views but sites like candobetter do not.

Enne K (not verified)

Mon, 2010-10-18 13:16

According to CSIRO scientist Peter Carberry, lack of fertilizers and population growth, combined with climate change, will challenge our agriculture industry like never before. He says we are facing an agricultural revolution similar to the Green Revolution that followed World War II. However, as Ferry and Gatehouse reported in their 2009 analysis of the impact of genetically modified crops, this came at a price, required substantial inputs of fertilisers and pesticides and gave rise to the widespread use of monoculture as an agricultural system. The industrialisation of our food supply means that our current production is extremely oil intensive. It has been calculated that, on average, it takes ten calories of fossil fuels to produce one calorie of food in our current setup. Carberry says population growth and increased wealth in countries such as China and India mean there are new and increased demands for food. Supply issues such as land degradation and the growth of biofuels will also play a role. Up to half the planet may face regular drought by the end of the century. “Unnatural disasters”— storms, floods, droughts, and sea- level rise— are predicted to become more frequent and intense, with adventitious impacts on food security, refugee waves, and conflict. The stockpile of wheat has dropped to its lowest level since 1980 - sufficient to feed the world for just 12 weeks. Food prices are soaring worldwide, while crude oil prices have doubled shipping and fertiliser costs. The UN's Food and Agriculture Organisation (FAO) estimates that by 2050, grain output has to rise 50% and meat output has to double. Food Production is now the last bastion of predominantly local ownership in the food chain. But with increasing interest by foreign companies - and governments, including China's - quality farmland is also a target. In short, Australians are in danger of becoming servants, not masters, of their own food resources. Wealthy Asian countries "are seeking to acquire land as part of a long-term strategy for food security". (SMH report) Considering that a large part of our population actually came here to escape starvation during the Irish Potato famine, engineered in part by the British owners of Irish agriculture, then perhaps this is an opportunity to revisit the entire issue of foreign ownership and to re-examine what we mean by independence and what sort of country we wish to be. How are we planning for the supply of healthy and affordable food needed for an increasing population, while at the same time reducing greenhouse gas emissions and making the most of our diminishing supply of water? Allocating prime food production land to housing construction illustrates the lack of public consultation and arrogance in the politicians and developers. The demise of the Murray Darling food bowl do wo overallocation, salination of soils, depletion of fertilizers, population blowout, and foreigners prowling the planet for land for their own food security, it is too much a vital issue to be in the hand of our incompetent politicians whose mindsets are totally immersed in short-term economic benefits rather than long term strategies to secure our future. Why are we still increasing our population? Emphasis added. - Editor

tim

Mon, 2010-10-18 08:33

John, are you trying to make me go out of business? You keep writing stuff that I agree with, on several fronts. Keep it up. Tim

Bandicoot

Sun, 2010-10-17 19:45

Up to 80 funerals take place here every day, and demand for plots is so high most people can only afford to rent tombs. If your relatives fail to keep up the payments, another body will take your place. Land is precious in Manila, and people are prepared to endure incredible circumstances to claim their own piece. The world is facing an overpopulation crisis. In 40 years time, if current growth rates continue, the number of people on the planet will be almost one and a half times what it is today, rising from 6.8 billion to 9.2 billion by 2050. As population increases, so does competition for basic resources – land, food, water and fuel – as well as the threat of environmental devastation and endemic disease. Our numbers are going to be unsustainable within a few years. Manila's crisis is what we should expect world-wide! What we are facing now a plague of humans! Manila: a Warning against overpopulation

Milly

Sun, 2010-10-17 16:08

We are being viewed as a global resource rather than a sovereign nation. Australia now is barely a nation at all! Our farmland and food production companies are being freely sold to overseas investors. Fewer and fewer people participate in their communities, especially in our cities, where a suburb is a place to stay until you've paid off enough of your house to move to somewhere better. We have more and more diversity, to the extent that we can no longer be sure what the values of our neighbours are. Our culture of "multicultural" means that we really have no mainstream unified culture, or consensus, at all! Those who come here to live also view us as a resource to improve their status and personal wealth. A place to escape to in times of trouble, or a place to make money before eventually returning home. Citizenship is given away cheaply. It's just another thing to buy. There's little sense that Australia is a nation, a group of unified peoples working together. On the contrary, Chinese economic expansion is driven by Chinese nationalism. Many of their state-owned businesses are successful. Their successes are sources of pride in being Chinese, being a primarily homogeneous people. The same can be said of Indians. No wonder people think Australians are lazy, that the West is doomed, and that we ought to allow them to buy everything because we are not competent to manage it ourselves. We ostensibly don't have enough "skills" or drive to work hard create a successful nation. Our leaders are some of the most uninspiring people in the world. By the time what is left of what used to be Australia wakes up our of their slumber and stupor, they will not form a big enough chunk of the electorate to make a change! We will be consumed into part of the "globe" or SE Asia - as a non-entity!

Sheila Newman

Sun, 2010-10-17 14:00

Planning Backlash is holding a major event, a Public Forum on Planning and Population in Melbourne at the Richmond Town Hall on the 7th November, Sunday at 4pm Speakers: Andrew Macleod, CEO Committee for Melbourne Kelvin Thomson, Federal MP for Coburg Panel will include: Rupert Mann, Heritage Action Group Moderator: David Trenerry Planning Backlash thanks Collingwood Abbotsford Residents Association for their help. Source: Mary Drost

RichB

Sun, 2010-10-17 10:03

Forgot to add this..This is the so called green party that wants to flood our beautiful country with que jumping economic migrants, and the odd one or two genuine asylum seekers.. How long will it be before Australian economic migrants are queing to migrate to other countries for a better life as life for some here is becoming unbearable due to soaring costs. Why should Australians have to pay taxes to provide housing and all other living costs for these economic migrants...That money would be better spent on preserving our vanishing native wildlife.

RichB

Sun, 2010-10-17 09:55

The Green party are a complete and utter waste of space. They are actors in partnership with the current government to make it seem as though they have some opposition concerned about the environment, when really the Greens are part of this government. It always amazes me when people get excited about upcoming elections and who they are going to vote for. It makes no difference who they vote for...as they are all in it together and it has already been decided before the election is over who will run this country...I shouldnt really say run as they are all totally incompetant....but this is the way it has been designed.

nimby

Sun, 2010-10-17 09:42

According to the Skilled Migrants - Live in Victoria website: "Skill shortages in many industries and sectors in Victoria allow skilled migrants to take advantage of a range of employment opportunities". What about young citizens who have done pre-apprenticeship courses at TAFE, as their own expense, and can't find positions to fulfill their apprenticeships? There just aren't enough positions. Why bring in skilled tradespeople and callously by-pass our own youth trying to make a start in life? "There is a range of pathways to permanent residence for people who want to live and work in Melbourne and regional Victoria including independent visas, state and territory nominated visas, family sponsored visas, and employer sponsored visas". Yes, exactly, it is easier for employers to sponsor a foreigner than to train an apprentice or trainee! Foreign students are preferred because they are compliant, cheap and flexible. It is too easy to come an live in Australia! Citizenship is for sale. "The Victorian Government supports skilled migrants through free state visa sponsorship. State sponsorship gives eligible applicants additional points towards the Department of Immigration and Citizenship (DIAC)’s General Skilled Migration points test, making it easier to obtain provisional and permanent visas". Victoria has the highest youth unemployment in the country. Melbourne's north-west achieved a dubious distinction in the latest unemployment data - it has the worst youth unemployment rate in Victoria. Victoria now has the worst youth unemployment rate in the country at 28 per cent. Wrong sort of record to set on young jobless With rising homelessness and unemployment, Victoria should not be advertising for more people from overseas!

quark

Sun, 2010-10-17 09:22

A group of scientists are conducting a survey of microbats in the Melbourne area- see 7.30 Report interview http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2010/s2846593.htm. These tiny bats about the size of a mouse live on insects including mosquitoes and according to a scientist interviewed yesterday on ABC radio there are few backyards where they are not to be found. They are however disappearing through loss of backyard habitat. This will to be our disadvantage not only because of their intrinsic value as unique creatures and fellow mammals but because they take care of many of the mosquitoes who would otherwise bite humans. It is a shame that The Greens (nor the other parties needless to say) do not seem to place a great value on the suburban environment as habitat. Whatever we do with regard to accommodating rising population, we are losing. Although this survey has been going for a few months they are still asking for volunteers to help in this via the Earthwatch website. Dr Lindy Lumsden, an authority on these creatures said in the 7.30 report interview that there are 16 different species and that she has some in captivity that have lived 20 years and still going. I hate to think what other species we will lose in the suburbs of Melbourne in the inexorable and pointless destruction and re building of our suburbs in dense format.

Sandra (not verified)

Sun, 2010-10-17 07:16

In response to the person that stated that "we have worked so hard to build this country and soon immigrants will take over", you are obviously very foolish! If you are familiar with YOUR Canadian history, I am sure that you know that Natives are the original inhabitants of this land, and ironically enough they have not experienced the prosperity, sense of nationalism and "perks" that you have experienced thus far, and fear will be taken away. Maybe you will have to work for what you have in the future, and maybe minorities" and immigrants will be able to experience some of those rewards, that they have to work for. Since you obviously did not immigrate to Canada you do not know what it feels like to have 10 years of schooling go to waste, or experience pay scales of minimum wage (don't get me wrong, everyone has a choice when choosing to immigrate). However to state that the country will no longer be yours, is quite ignorant, since IT WAS NEVER YOURS TO BEGIN WITH!

kiwichick (not verified)

Sat, 2010-10-16 16:18

to milly;good question!!!

maybe this quote may help you

" It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of it's powers to repress
dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie and thus by extension, the Truth is the greatest enemy of the State."

Josef Goebbels
Reich Minister of Public Enlightenment and Propaganda
Nazi Germany 1933-1945

Editorial comment: Whilst there can no little doubt that propagandists, including Josef Goebbels of a past era of history, and today's most influential journalists from this era, implement this philosophy in practice, it is disputed that Josef Goebbels ever actually spoke these words. As put in the article "False Nazi Quotations":

[Josef Goebbels] always maintained that propaganda had to be truthful. That doesn't mean he didn’t lie, but it would be a pretty poor propagandist who publicly proclaimed that he was going to lie. I know of no evidence that he actually said it.

Whilst it is possible that Goebbels never actually publicly uttered these words, it is clear that many of today's opinion moulders are just as much guided by the principle formulated by these words as was Goebbels in his time.

Bandicoot

Sat, 2010-10-16 13:48

People should wake up out of their stupor! Due to a fragmented society and years of dictatorial "democracy", the public are resigned to the inevitability that lobbying and activism are ineffective! The Brumby government corruptly has been hijacked by the property development industry. Their freeways, tunnels, toll-ways and the desal plant are all part of the scheme to keep increasing Melbourne's population to 5 million and beyond. It is a Ponzi scheme to make people at the top rich while bleeding wealth from the public, and the results are increasing mortgage stress and homelessness, and other soaring costs. Victoria is a lot worse off than ever before. We have higher costs of living than ever before - for basics such as rates, energy, housing, water - and they are set to keep increasing. Even middle class suburbs are facing increasing homelessness, and families are being hit. The "shortage" of housing and public infrastructure is due to our limits being stretched by ongoing massive population growth! Crime and violence is out of control, and with more human developments planned for outer reaches of Melbourne, any beauty in the country will be eroded and bulldozed. Victoria, for most people, is going down the slide socially, economically and environmentally. Last financial year, John Brumby's government collected about $3.6 billion in duty on property transfers. Based on current stamp duty rates, anyone buying a house in Melbourne at the June quarter median price of $559,000 faced an additional bill of $28,610 to cover Brumby's share . There is so much money from property and speculation, and the stamp duty is a rort to get money from people wanting to buy a roof over their heads and getting nothing in return. Housing is not a luxury but a basic human right. No wonder our State government wants ongoing population growth! Our increasing trade deficit for Victoria means that stamp duty has become a major source of income to boost our "narrow revenue base" - however unsustainable, costly, or unpopular!

RichB

Sat, 2010-10-16 10:29

Acclaimed author Tim Winton has taken aim at the management of the Swan River, saying Perth's greatest gift is being treated like a sewer. In a piece written for _The West Australian _, Winton described the health of the Swan and its adjoining wetlands as a scandal, claiming if it were a financial institution or a football team, its board and CEO would be "dragged from their tower on the Terrace" and sacked. Yesterday Winton, author of the prizewinning 1992 novel Cloudstreet, visited a favourite fishing spot in Mosman Park that he said was polluted so badly at times that litter was piled waist deep. "The Swan River has given me a lot in my 50 years, and Cloudstreet is one of those things. I guess I feel obliged to repay the debt and speak up on its behalf," he said. "It's painful to think of the river my grandchildren will inherit." He will no longer eat anything caught in the river and said there was no political will to restore it to a tolerable level of health. "There are no sleek, commercial lobbyists cajoling cabinet ministers on behalf of the Swan. The tide of money and influence seems to flow the other way," he said. His opinions were backed by WWF WA director Paul Gamblin. "Eighty per cent of wetlands have been lost on the Swan Coastal plain and there is a chasm between the scientific evidence and the reaction," Mr Gamblin said. Swan River Trust chairman Jim Freemantle agreed with much of what Winton said, but said he had not addressed the trust's work. "There is nothing new there in what he said. All river systems across the world are under basically the same sorts of threats - population increase, nutrients, toxic contaminants from generations past, the use of soluble fertiliser. "We are not sitting there fiddling while Rome burns," he said. Winton hopes his words will put the river's health back on the agenda. "People talk about how much they love the river - it's probably time to show it."

RichB

Sat, 2010-10-16 10:10

Its because these Morons have only three things in their rats maze of a brain....and they are.. Footy, low alchohol crap beer, Holden cars.....75% of the population of Australia is my guess. Oh and they believe everything our caring Government tells them..

RichB

Sat, 2010-10-16 10:07

I think we can say the human race is doomed.. Three men who viciously attacked a protected leopard seal by throwing rocks at it and dragging it down a beach were undone by placing their photos on Facebook. Michael William Mathews, 23, Harley David McKenzie, 20, and Phillip Ray Horrell, 24, appeared before Judge Jane Farish in the Invercargill District Court yesterday charged with taking a leopard seal and injuring it on or about October 27. The attack, which happened near Rowellan Burn, at Te Waewae Bay, and carries a maximum penalty of six months in jail or a $250,000 fine, was detailed by Department of Conservation principal compliance officer Alan Christie. Mr Christie told the court the three men, all shearers of Tuatapere, were driving past the beach when they spotted the seal and stopped to get a closer look. Horrell filmed the seal while the two others forcefully threw rocks the size of fists at it to try to antagonise it into chasing them, he said. Rocks struck the seal multiple times, including at least twice in the head, and the seal appeared to lose consciousness at one stage, he said. After stopping the filming Horrell and McKenzie then dragged the injured seal down the beach, before pictures were taken of two of the men posing beside it with wide smiles and thumbs up, he said. The photos were placed in a file titled "Good Times" by Horrell and then uploaded to Facebook, which attracted DOC's attention, Mr Christie said. Horrell's lawyer Bill Dawkins said Horrell did not participate in the actions as much as the other men and could be heard at the time telling them to stop. However, Judge Farish said Horrell was more worried about his personal safety than harming the seal and during the video he could be heard laughing and saying "It's f-ed already" and "It's really f-ed now". Horrell was getting "his kicks loading it on to his Facebook page" and the actions of all three men were appalling and barbaric, Judge Farish said. "The animal was clearly distressed. "You didn't show any humanity to the animal on that afternoon. "It was a barbaric act." Matthews' lawyer Richard Smith told the court Matthews said it was "the dumbest thing I have ever done and really regret it". Horrell was fined $5000 and Matthews was find $7000. McKenzie, who has a previous conviction for animal cruelty, was remanded to November 12 for sentence. Judge Farish said if the leopard seal had died then she would have had no qualms with sending all three men to jail.

Peter Bright

Sat, 2010-10-16 09:40

When I read SHOUTED comments such as those from the semi-literate ignoramus TTHOM above, I despair at the stupidity behind them and treasure sane, restrained responses such as those from James. There is a huge amount of political ignorance in this country. I sometimes strike up a conversation with total strangers just to gain clues into their political awareness, and so often I get a "Huh? I just don't care, mate!" I despair that such morons have the vote. In my opinion, they shouldn't.

quark

Sat, 2010-10-16 08:57

The lovely part of this article is the sign of solidarity between children and their parents. So often when ordinary people are squeezed, one generation comes off better than the other in its public image . In many journalistic articles in the mainstream media in Australia "Baby Boomers" get blamed for being greedy and in effect taking from the next generation and having the audacity to have a life expectancy that might place an eventual burden on society. What seems to be forgotten in this generational blame game over what is essentially one's date of birth is that there are many younger people who actually love and care about people from the generation above them- their parents. The article is a reminder of this.

quark

Fri, 2010-10-15 22:59

It amazes me how people who go to work and have children ever manage to properly inform themselves of contemporary politics in Australia to the point where they can be any sort of match to those who politically machinate and manoeuvre full time and professionally. I believe it is a full time job keeping up with all their tricks. Presumably one goes into public life to do good but alas they seem to lose sight of what that ever might have been. Suddenly I guess there are new imperatives and like the subjects in Milgram's experiment, they are obedient to the perceived authority. These problems were highlighted in the past few days with the planning issue in Victoria where a member of the Greens in the Upper House appeared to deliberately avoid a vote in the house on a planning amendment which has far reaching effects. The politics associated with population growth in Victoria , Australia is never ending with innocuous sounding perhaps (to some) titles such as "Housing Capacity Study" Sounds reasonable perhaps to some but to me it heralds life in all areas under this scrutiny (and isn't that everywhere ?) relentlessly going downhill.

John Marlowe

Fri, 2010-10-15 21:56

Australian politics are in doldrums - no leadership, no national planning, no strategic investment, no way out of institutional problems with public services - health, housing, employment, public transport, education, policing, prisons, you name it! The Federal election showed no winners, only compromise of dragging together the best of a worst bunch. Our first female prime minister regrettably is the product of factional cronyism followed by billion dollar seducements with independent MPs - a high speed broadband concept. Gillard is another Labor puppet, so of course she has got to go! So long as deals and financing of political parties be it by unions, or big business, or wealthy individuals, Australian politics is corrupt and failing its democratic principles. This applies equally to Labor, Liberals, Nationals and the Greens. They're all bad. Australians are experiencing the political doldrums. This has created a political vacuum in which anything could emerge.

TTHOM (not verified)

Fri, 2010-10-15 17:21

SHE HAS GOT TO GO!!!!! AUSTRALIA CANNOT AFFORD THE INCOMPETENT LABOR RITES RUNNING THIS COUNTRY! AND WATCH THE SPOT THE NEXT ONE THEY "PUT UP" AS THEIR LEADER WILL BE AND EX UNION HACK. IT IS TIME THAT AUSTRALIANS TAKE A GOOD HARD LOOK AT WHERE COUNTRIES END UP WHEN THEY HAVE A BUNCH OF SOCIALIST RUNNING THE SHOW. CASE IN POINT USA, FRANCE, ENGLAND(THEY LEFT IT TO LONG AND THOSE POOR TORRIES STAND NO CHANCE OF FIXING UP THE MESS OF THOSE INCOMPETENT LEFT-WINGER , EG. LABOR PARTY) Editorial comment: Firstly, it would be appreciated if comments were not made ALL IN UPPER CASE. Secondly, I think commentators should state clearly what the are in favour of and not just what they are against. I think readers would justifiably suspect that this commentator would have preferred the Liberal and National Parties (LNP) to have won the last federal election rather than the Labor Party. The statement in which the commentator reveals his/her likely political sympathies is '(THEY LEFT IT TO (sic) LONG AND THOSE POOR TORRIES (sic) STAND NO CHANCE OF FIXING UP THE MESS OF THOSE INCOMPETENT LEFT-WINGER, EG. LABOR PARTY)'. For all our misgivings about Julia Gillard and her Labor Government, I personally think, although it is not the candobetter consensus, that the Australian public were better served by Labor, rather than the LNP coalition being able to form Government after the election. The public was served better still by so many votes going to parties other than the two major parties and the Parliament being a hung Parliament. As a result, whoever it was who formed government could not have been so contemptuous of the widespread community views in opposition to policies enacted by both Labor and LNP governments in recent decades. Whilst many justifiably distrust anyone who wears the label of 'Socialist' or 'left-winger', true socialism (as opposed to what so many who proclaim themsleves to be 'Socialists' would impose upon us) is about achieving justice and equality for all and is a far more laudable goal than that of parties which openly favour the so-called 'free market'. If anything, we should be critical of Labor for having abandoned its past commitment to Socialism and its embrace of 'free market' policies.

Anonymous (not verified)

Fri, 2010-10-15 12:31

The public are in a trance of obedience due to knowing that any efforts to have a voice in public concerns will just be obstructed and ignored. We don't have a dynamic democracy any more - just bureaucrats intent on "business as usual", content to continue whatever path they like. We are over-governed and there are too many fat-cats, distanced from the public. Even the Victorian Ombudsman's office can do little. The Brumby government is corrupt and narrow in their interests, and are feted by property developers and business councils. Demonstrations just make a noise that will be ignored by the powers-that-be! It's not surprising that the Federal elections showed such ambivalent results! We really do lack leaders in Australia.

nimby

Fri, 2010-10-15 08:27

Source: Sydney Morning Herald, Paul Myers
Australia is rapidly losing control of its food resources. The purchase of AWB - the former Australian Wheat Board - by the Canadian company Agrium, now approved by the Foreign Investment Review Board, is the tip of an iceberg where large segments of food processing and marketing have been sold offshore.
Australia should look to its food security, before all the farm is sold
Australians are in danger of becoming servants, not masters, of their own food resources.... Australia and New Zealand are high on China's list. In June, a Tasmanian real estate agent reported strong interest from China in northern Tasmanian dairy farms!

It is pure idiocy to sell off Australian land and agriculture to overseas investors!

The problem is globalisation, and Australia is being viewed as a global resource rather than a sovereign nation, to our disadvantage. Food security will be vital in the future. Whether or not we can sustain our food supply in the future could decide our future survival in the face of population blowout, consumption of global resources and climate change. Australia only has limited fertile soils and water, and protecting what we have is imperative. Already the Murray Darling is under threat from "ecological overshoot'! We are being sold-out by lack of patriotism and poor leadership in Australia, to our detriment.

Prof Julian Cribb, author of The Coming Famine says the most important people in the world are farmers. His book is a wake up call dealing with the most urgent issue facing humanity in the 21st century - whether or not we can sustain our food supply! He says that a food crisis has already started, and food wars are already happening, and water is in ever scarcer supply. Soil fertilizers that have been taken for granted are in severe decline, peak oil has already passed and climate change is real and happening. The "elephant in the kitchen" is population growth, and the mass migrations of "climate change" refugees will escalate! He calls for a doubling of investment in agricultural science because farmers alone will not be able to solve the challenge.

We must adopt a new diet that involves less energy, land, water, nutrients, and pay more for food so that farmers are paid a fair prices. He is not a vegetarian, but assesses that one hectare of land can produce 78 times more food than the same land under beef cattle and employs more people!

With overpopulated nations scouring the planet for land to secure their food for the future, the most futile and dangerous thing is to sell our own land off to foreigners! We primarily need to ensure our own food security and any excess should be exported to support our economy. We are not a global resource, as Australia is still a sovereign nation. We already import more net food than export, and with peak oil setting in, this will become limited. We need firm leadership in Australia - too many wimpy politicians are selling us off to the highest bidder.

Sheila Newman

Thu, 2010-10-14 21:55

I find that a lot of the public are awake and realise what is going on in the government - that it is corrupt at every level. What many still do not realise is that the mainstream press and the ABC are also ideologically corrupt, representing the growthist and profiteering forces over democratic interests. Therefore the middle classes still write to editors, listen to the ABC and watch the ABC, and think this will get them somewhere. They also think that the unions are representing the interests of the workers. Then there are also lots of people in the working classes etc who know the system is corrupt and they are being sent down the river and who realise they cannot trust the newspapers and TV but who don't know where to go. A major function of candobetter.org is to create an Internet rendezvous for such people and their concerns and help us all to relay, to find commonality, and to organise to beat the corporate press and government. Sheila Newman, population sociologist

RichB

Thu, 2010-10-14 21:33

Yes and still the Australian public will accept all this without a whisper..Until the public wake up from their slumber and realise that this government and every other government is a corporation and is out to bleed as much money as they can from them as possible..When is the day going to come when everyone wakes up.....All is not well so stop pretending it is.. Ed. Title changed by eds at cdb because there was no real title and to give idea of content.

John Marlowe

Thu, 2010-10-14 21:11

Meanwhile aristocratic pollies have ramped their own superannuation pensions up to 15%, while the rest of us linger on 9%, and with a superannuation nest egg rorted by commissions and economic downturn in value. Meanwhile, where is the Australian Government policy, strategy and funding to combat rampant ageism in the workplace and recruitment sector? Try being over 50 and finding a job in Australia! Meanwhile, the traditional gold watch myth of sudden retirement is already one of Australia's greatest social challenges. Baby-boomers are now over 50 and the sheer volume poses serious flow-on socio-economic demand pressures - hospitals, aged care, mobility, access equity, suitable housing, etc. Sudden retirement needs rethinking to more of a scaling down phased approach. Yet Australia has no retirement policy. A starting point to expose the reality of the problem is to redefine the parameters of unemployment to include all those of working age (18 to 67 now) not employed full-time, and to show the breakdown by age group. So long as pollies are pensioned like aristocracy, how can they be respected leaders of us over 50s discriminately condemned to the scrap heap? Corporate Australia's 'skills shortage' lie is all about avoiding the cost of training Australians in favour of cheap imports.

Sheila Newman

Thu, 2010-10-14 19:32

The Australian 'Labor' Government of Kevin Rudd (Prime Minister Julia Gillard's predecessor) raised the retirement age from 65 to 67 in 2009 because it claimed that it could not afford to support longer periods of retirement caused by increased life expectancies. Surely, if the economy has improved as much as the economists claim that it has in recent decades, it would be no strain at all for our Government to fund more years of retirement. Why can't working hours be reduced, particularly for elderly workers, if our economy has done so well? If the elderly are such a strain, in spite of our supposedly improved economy, then why not consider measures such as graduated retirement? Why not allow those who are now being made to work two extra years work only 20 hours per week, instead of the 38+ hours required of workers? Indeed, if the economy is doing so well, why isn't it possible to reduce everyone's work week, and why not reduce the work week for all over, say, 45 to 20 hours on full pay? See also: Plan to lift retirement age 'narrow-minded' of 13 May 2009:
... But Mike Rafferty from the University of Sydney's Workplace Research Centre says lifting the pension age is an unfair policy. "For many people that are wealthy, they can retire whenever they like," he told ABC Radio's The World Today. "So what it is really doing is it is saying to the working age people who can't afford to retire when they like that essentially now they are going to be pushed further away from retirement." He said the move will cause a greater class rift in retirement.
"You are going to create larger inequality into retirement because we already know that by the time people get towards retirement age all sorts of inequalities are already locked in," he said. "Now you are going to say amongst those who can't afford to retire, you are going to work longer as well. "It is very narrow-minded. It is single-issue focused and it is an agenda that is largely driven not by necessarily the needs of a country but by the needs of a Treasury." Why does the ABC now delete readers' comments after 3 months? Note: Comments on the abovementioned site from visitors have been deleted(?!) The site says: "Comments for this story are no longer available. ABC policy is to delete comments on stories three months after they are published." Why the ABC presumes that site visitors would not want to read the views of other site visitors or those, who had take the effort to write their comments, would not mind the comments being deleted is not explained. Does the ABC management feel threatened by the expression of critical thoughts? If not, why else would it adopt such a policy so destructive of the creativity of its viewing public?

Sheila Newman

Thu, 2010-10-14 17:22

In France there is a quota on foreign students and all places- for citizens and foreign bursary holders - are free. Once Australia's system was very similar. What we are seeing here in Australia is the recreation of a colonial class of people who will not have the same educational and training or land-purchase opportunities as the caste that rules them. Yes, what we are looking at is what happened when the British took over England, and put down the Indians. This is how Australia started but there was a rise of democracy during Federation in 1904. This has taken a little over 100 years to put down, but the so-called 'elites' who are empowered by money, not brains, are going to succeed if the so-called alternative movements keep helping them. The arrival of specifically indian students, by the way, has little to do with this. It is just easy to use the example of colonial India, with its fabled British land-tenure generated overpopulation and British generated cruelty - generating Ghandi eventually - to illustrate our predicament. I could also use Africa, Samoa, and New Guinea - however, not Fiji, since the micronesian Fijians still control their own land. Sheila Newman, population sociologist

John Marlowe

Thu, 2010-10-14 09:30

Since Howard, Australian LibLab Federal governments have cut and undermined university funding forcing universities into commercial operations to be viable. Why? How can this be beneficial to Australians? Most now financially depend upon full fee-paying overseas students at the expense of Australian school leavers. The Australian tertiary education policy effect for the past 20 years has thus been educating non-Australians at the expense of Australians. They have also been distracted away from core education by research grants. Newly qualified overseas students have then been granted and encouraged to become Australian immigrants and so obtain the higher paying jobs. Meanwhile, Australian born students are finding it harder and harder to get tertiary education in their own country. It is a disgrace! Australia's tertiary education policy could well be controlled and guided from Beijing or Delhi or anywhere but Canberra.

Bandicoot

Thu, 2010-10-14 08:53

Monash University is poised to slash about 300 staff and shave $45 million from next year's budget as a nationwide slump in international student enrolments begins to bite. The reason is that less international students are being lured here because some doors have been closed to immigration. Is is also due to high dollar, and strong competition from the United States, Britain and Asia. New rules will make it harder to get residency! In another ominous sign for the nation's multibillion-dollar education industry, Monash has predicted a fall of 10 per cent or more in its foreign student enrolments next year. www.theage.com.au/national/education/foreign-students-in-retreat-20101013-16k03.html Interestingly, we know a PhD student from Peru studying at Monash and she is amazed and surprised that there were hardly any "Australians" there!

Milly

Wed, 2010-10-13 17:58

Why are Greens so reluctant to admit what the real problem is with the planet is not just anthropogenic "climate change" but overpopulation.? People are being pushed to live in areas such as below sea level, sensitive coastal areas, on mountainsides or close to native forests. Then they blame the resulting disasters on global warming! Why don't they "draw the dots" and speak out about overpopulation? With the population expected to increase by a whopping 30% in the next 30 to 50 years, there'll be plenty of new 'global warming disasters' created. Where are all the refugees going to go? We can't welcome them all! The government is working on carbon pricing, but where is their population control policy? They are under tremendous pressure to increase our economy through population growth. Already we have hit the limits of the environment with Murray Darling food bowl, despite "sustainable" being used in every context. Immigration is a socially engineered 'population re-distribution policy'. But with 9 billion projected humans on the globe in the next decades, there's only so much space and resources for re-distributing. We all know what causes humans to be born, how about governments invest some money in teaching people about limiting their offspring? Dr, Martin Luther King said, "Unlike the plagues of the dark ages or contemporary diseases, which we do not understand, the modern plague of overpopulation is soluble by means we have discovered and with resources we possess. What is lacking is not sufficient knowledge of the solution, but universal consciousness of the gravity of the problem and the education of billions of people who are its victims."

Matilda B (not verified)

Wed, 2010-10-13 16:58

The farmers have been deceived by mis-management and incompetence from successive governments. We have Ministers for the Environment, Climate Change, Water, Agriculture, all making so-called "sustainable" policies. Farmers assume they are reliable and plant their crops and buy assets - assuming that "business as usual" is OK! Water allotments have increased over the century, and it is clearly NOT sustainable. Now they have to cope with heavily reduced allocations and ruin? No wonder farmers are angry. The farmers have been deceived by incompetent governments running an economy, for profits and exports and increased GDP and ignoring the environment - the structure that keeps our planet going and provides our food and water. They are destroying the goose that laid the golden egg. Our politicians are out of their depth and not qualified in vital areas of expertise. Why are we thus increasing our population? Dick Smith and Prof Julian Cribb are right - we could be facing disasters in the future for lack of food!

John Marlowe

Tue, 2010-10-12 22:49

The Australian Greens have not even kept the Lib/Lab bastards honest - a default role vacated by the Australian Democrats.

Those controlling the Greens must prefer that the Greens remain ineffective - as if Labor faceless factionalism has infected the Greens as well. It seems all Left-leaning malcontents have gravitated to the Greens, causing it to become a contradictory salad of bohemian tossers.

Indeed, the Greens are reliably ineffective. Ask any community grassroots activist group who has sought the support of The Greens with a campaign. A 'Green Agenda' is an exercise in pontification; a phenomenon to behold! Milly's comment 'Vague answers from Greens' demonstrates this quite poetically.

The Greens are so reliably ineffective that their deceptive lure is more 'effective' than if grassroots activist groups dare approach Nationals for support. At least with the Nationals, a spade is a flamin' shovel and such groups have no doubts where they stand.

Milly

Tue, 2010-10-12 15:28

There are many double-edged words in Sarah Hanson-Young's email response. There are a lot of words such as "recommendations", "policy options", "plans", "economic sustainability", "inquiries", "perspective", "debate", "panel" - etc etc. All a bit evasive and vague, with no substantial commitment to numbers or concrete evidence of just what is "sustainable" or the democratic processes that should decide our lifestyles and interests. Too much political-jargon means that it can be interpreted at will, according to what they want! We want to hear some firm statements and objectivity, with commitments such as: abolition of the baby bonus for over two children limit of immigration to X thousand per year stabilizing numbers to X million protection of flora and fauna and to stop species losses protection of ecosystems from the demand for "jobs" and "economic benefits" Human growth should be recognised as a threatening process, and their "Green" agenda will be compromised by ongoing population growth.

nimby (not verified)

Tue, 2010-10-12 13:48

Government documents obtained by The Age reveal the international consortium AquaSure feared ''civil disruption'' could prevent it delivering the project on time, and indicated it needed reassurance about police help before agreeing to take on the project. Police ''will release law enforcement data'' to AquaSure. DSE officials met senior police on March 11 last year, and the possibility of a deal involving the government, police and AquaSure was discussed. The desalination plant is the key element of the government's multibillion-dollar plan to ''drought proof'' Victoria. Ironically, Melbourne was already "drought proofed" in 1983 when the Thomson Dam was completed. However, our population keeps overshooting our natural limitations, and thus the public must be forced, with the help of Victoria Police, to pay excessive amounts for something as natural and basic as - WATER! Brumby's main focus has been ensuring we have maximum freeways, tollways, tunnels, roads, water infrastructure and development to ensure their drive for 5 million people in Melbourne by 2030 - and ongoing from there!

nimby

Tue, 2010-10-12 10:26

1st October, 2010 Thank you for you email concerning population policy. I apologise for lateness of my reply, but due to the large amount of correspondence I receive I can not respond as quickly as I would like and regrettably there is always a delay. The Australian Greens believe that population policy should not be driven by economic goals or to counter the effects of an ageing population. As population is a complex issue, while we want a sustainable relationship between humans and the environment by taking action in Australia, including planning, consultation and a whole of government approach, to improve equity in consumption levels and resource and technology use; and globally, to improve social and economic equity and promote programs that empower women. In March of this year, Greens have moved a motion calling on the Government to establish an independent National Inquiry into Australia's Population to 2050. Australia's population should be determined by the capacity of our environment and our infrastructure. Immigration should not be stopped. In fact Australia should increase its humanitarian immigration program, but we need to reduce our skilled migration program and balance that reduction by investing in skills training for Australians. National population policy is the responsibility of government; it should be responsive to national and global factors. Global population is expected to grow from 6.8 billion people now to 9.2 billion by 2050 and Australia should be taking a lead in finding global solutions. (my comment: does that mean we should be a resource to ease global population pressure?) The motion was as follows: Motion calling for a population inquiry: (1) That the Senate- (a) notes that: (i) global population is expected to grow from 6.8 billion people now to 9.2 billion in 2050, (ii) Australia's population size and capacity to sustain population growth at the current rate is an issue of national significance that requires a national population policy and strategic plan as a matter of urgency, (iii) as a wealthy nation, Australia is disproportionately able to influence and slow global population growth, and (iv) there is growing public debate about the question of population size; and (b) calls on the Prime Minister (Mr Rudd) to establish an independent national inquiry into Australia's population to 2050, which is to report by 1 July 2011. That, in establishing the inquiry: (a) the chair and panel of the inquiry be appointed with cross party support to ensure independence; (b) sufficient funds are allocated to ensure that the inquiry holds public hearings in all capital cities and major regional centres across Australia; and (c) the terms of reference for the inquiry include: (i) the impact on Australia of the growing global population and how best Australia may affect it, (ii) the development of a plan for a population that can be best supported in Australia within and then beyond the next 40 years, taking into account technology options, infrastructure, patterns of resource use and quality of life considerations, (iii) the environmental, social and economic sustainability of Australia's population in the short-, medium- and long-term, (iv) the value of a whole-of-government approach to population incorporating consideration of immigration and family policies, (v) making recommendations of national policy options in relation to population including, taking into account regional and local perspectives, and (vi) any related matters. Yours sincerely, Sarah Hanson-Young Australian Greens Senator for South Australia

James Sinnamon

Tue, 2010-10-12 00:08

Given the indisputable rottenness of both major parties, the Greens should have years ago become a potent third political force with a much larger vote and a much greater represention in all state parliaments and the Federal parliament. That they have not suggests to me that those in control of the Greens actually prefer that they remain ineffective. This is most convenient for the ruling elites as the energies and talents of those, who would otherwise be far more effective, is diverted into supporting an organisation which seems to have been deliberately crippled as a vehicle for positive change by those in control of it.

John Marlowe

Mon, 2010-10-11 22:20

Voting 'Greens' has become a protest vote against conservative Lib/Labs - which being so policy-identical ought to consider merging in order to boost their party numbers. Greens have become leftist Labor. Greens are about upper middle class idealists. They are not about socio-ecological conservation. The Greens leave a conservation power vacuum. But should the grassroots campaign hardy Wilderness Society form a political party, it would stand a strong chance of at least a Senate seat in the next round of Federal elections.

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